So much has changed in the year since I first talked to Leslie Grossman, who plays Mary Cherry on Popular. Her publicist takes my calls now, for one thing. And although I don't have her home phone number (a very wise move on her part, by the way), she has actually started to write me emails from her husband's email account. She has also adopted a Chihuahua who is named Oscar. "Originally I named him 'Gorgeous,' but my husband put his foot down. He was like, 'Look, I already agreed to own a Chihuahua, don't make me run down the street shouting, "Gorgeous! Come to daddy!"'"
Leslie told me I could ask her anything. Her only stipulation was that I wouldn't let her swear. Last time I interviewed her, Leslie's father found the interview while surfing the web and was shocked at the profanity.
Okay, you know those Vanity Fair puff pieces where a writer like Kevin Sessums or Michael Schnayerson just gushes about how Gwyneth Paltrow arrives at his door with take-out from Dean and Deluca -- because she's so sweet and down to earth -- and they walk around Manhattan and shop and she smokes a lot of Marlboro Lights?
Oh, of course. Have you ever read that article in Brill's Content about all those celebrity articles? Every single one of them is the same. The women are described as "down to earth" and "disarming" and the men are all "boyishly charming."
Exactly. So what would you and I be doing if I were writing a cover article about you for Vanity Fair?
You'd come visit me in my trailer in Burbank which smells like a Porta-John. You'd go, "This isn't glamourous!" And I'd go, "I know! It's like living in a Porta-John." And you'd go, "God, I never imagined it would be like this with this orange carpeting." It would be really loud because there was this construction site nearby, and we'd eat Lay's BBQ Potato Chips because that's as fancy as Craft Services gets. And there'd be nobody bringing me a latte. I'd have to go and make it myself in the half-broken machine.
And then I'd write about how disarming and down to earth you are.
And how youthful I look in person despite the fact that I'm 29.
No way! I thought you were a precocious twelve-year-old.
Exactly.
What would you be wearing?
I'd be wearing sweats and a tank top. I dress terribly to work. Everybody does. You have to practically wear pajamas all the time because you're always changing in and out of your costume. I'm just destroying every ounce of mystery about the set. I should be telling you I'm wearing a Bob Mackie gown.
While you just sit around.
Exactly. [pause] Well, actually, if you caught me between scenes I probably would be wearing a Bob Mackie gown.
That's true.
I know this sounds petty but those gowns were such a pain. The costume department -- they always saw the scripts before we did -- they'd be like, "I'm sorry, you're not going to like this, but we have to do another gown fitting." And I'd be like, "Oh no! Not again!" That's why I was so happy about that Teen Tartz thing. We just reused the light-up dress.
Oh, that was so great that the light-up dress came back. And that scene was so friggin' brilliant.
Well, filming that scene was such an out-of-body experience. I had a 101-degree fever at the time and that dress gets really hot when you light it up.
Wow, I didn't even think about that.
And it was so hard for me to remember all the words to Rock Me, Amadeus!. I mean, because at least if it's a song and there's a melody you can get into it.
Yeah, but Rock Me, Amadeus has all these spoken historical facts and stuff. It was on the radio all the time when I was growing up but I couldn't tell you a thing about the lyrics.
It took me two days to learn all that and I kept messing it up during the taping and I was sweating profusely. And you know what? My husband actually came that day. He was like, "I have to see this," and he brought a friend. But it was so much fun to do because it was pure Popular. I mean, when am I going to get to do this in my entire life ever again? I had such a good time doing it and the crew was so much fun and everyone was laughing and Jm J Bullock was there. It was really really fun. I had a good time.
It was such a good parody of Popstars. They nailed that whole aesthetic. All the details were there.
That was the highlight of the season. At the end of the second season, with that and Nicole doing "Coup," we were like, dude, it's on again. Because that's what it's all about. It's not about the girls hating each other, it's about me being crazy and Nicole being the biggest bitch in the world. I mean, we couldn't have done that forever but a third season would have been fun.
I was lucky to be involved in that. I mean, I wish I could take you with me through pilot season and see just how hard it is to get a show on the air. It's crazy. There's so much stuff that's really good that will never make it -- and we'll never know about it. So the fact that that freaky show with my character was on American television for two years -- that's pretty cool. There was so much of it that was totally subversive.
They would cut the most benign stuff but then leave in this other stuff and I'd be like, I cannot believe they're letting this in. I guess they didn't get most of it. Like when I meet my twin sister and I'm talking about how she can be the bossy top and I'll be the passive bottom? How 'bout that? Can you believe they left that in?
Or Miss Glass buying the "hairless pussy" for her sister?
Oh, exactly! They left that in. That's what was so weird about the network, they were so random about stuff. We would be like, we have no idea if this is going to make it or not but we're just going to try.
Ryan would show us the Standards and Practices notes -- these strict, stringent letters about what we could and couldn't do. They would say stuff like [high snooty voice], "Please do not make references to her booty" It was so funny. For instance, in "I Know What You Did Last Spring Break," Mary Cherry goes off and does a movie called Booze Cock Monster. I couldn't believe they let us keep it but we were only allowed to say it once. So when we referred to the movie a second time in the script, we had to call it Booze Cock-A-Doodle-Doo. It was really funny how they'd pick and choose.
Oh, so that's why the title of that movie changed. I had wondered about that. You'd think if they let you say it once, the damage had already been done, right?
Exactly, it makes no sense. Who knows how they work.
Ask me any question. I don't care.
Well, the question I was going to start with was...
Is Tammy Lynn Michaels dating Melissa Etheridge? [laughing]
[laughing] Well, actually, no. I mean, I read People so I already knew that. But I was going to ask you if there was an active competition between you and Tammy to see who would be the first to get into a high-profile lesbian relationship in order to bring publicity to the show. I mean, did Ryan ever try to pimp you out to Ellen DeGeneres or anything?
[laughs] No. I guess I lost that competition by getting married.
But you know, Tammy is so happy. Okay, I'm not going to comment on her relationship but you should probably ask her yourself.
You know that was her that posted on your boards.
Excuse me?
Yeah. That was her.
That blows my mind! I had no idea!
I saw it when I was lurking on the boards and I called her up and I was like, "Is this you?" and she was like, "Yeah, and they totally booted me off!"
Oh my God. I mean, I desperately wanted to believe it was her -- we all did -- but something just didn't sound right. I even showed the threads to a bunch of the MBTV writers and I was like, "What do you think?" and they were like, "There's no way that's her!"
You are all so cynical. [laughs]
Comes with the territory, I guess. Oh my God, I am so embarrassed. You have got to tell her I'm so sorry. ["Me too, since I think I'm the one that was like, 'Please, it's not her, and she's booted.' Sorry, Tammy Lynn!" -- Sars]
You should call her up yourself. She'd give a great interview.
Anyway, Tammy's very happy. I mean, obviously I can't give you details of their relationship but it's a very positive relationship.
When did you find out about it?
When it happened. She told me the night she met her.
And when was that?
I'm not supposed to talk about that.
Oops. Sorry.
But it was weird for me. I would get all these emails in my MBTV email account from all these people I didn't know who'd insist that Tammy was dating Melissa. I got nine of these emails. I thought -- because I'm so cynical -- that it was another hoax. I mean, I'm just some internet writer. I'm not a gossip columnist. I'm not even Matt Drudge. Why would people be leaking stories to me?
But it was true!
I guess so.
I think it's great. They are having so much fun together. I went to Melissa's fortieth birthday party. Tammy invited me, and you can just see that they are having so much fun. They're still in that early stage where they're happy and it's fun to be around. They have this really great energy.
Was Brad Pitt there?
Yes he was.
Who else was there?
Oh, there was a slew of celebs. Jenny Ann was there.
Who is Jenny Ann?
Jennifer Aniston? Hello? Brad Pitt's wife?
Oh! Jenny Ann! Duh! Got it.
Meg Ryan. Kelly Preston. There were a lot of people. Yeah, but you know, Brad Pitt just doesn't do it for me. Everyone else was freaking out but I was like, "I'm sorry. I don't get it."
I've heard he's unremarkable in person. It's one of those deals where the camera loves him but there's nothing amazing going on in real life.
He looks exactly the same. We didn't speak or anything but I was like, "Oh, whatever."
Did he smell bad?
I didn't get close enough to tell. I have no idea.
I've heard rumors that his body odor is deafening.
Really? Well, I didn't get close enough, but if I had known I would have gotten closer and gotten a whiff so I could tell you.
I should have given you one of those sample bottles. You could have collected the air from the party in it and we could have had a lab test it.
Could you imagine me trying to get that? I would have been kicked out of that party on my ass!
But the party was fun and Melissa and Tammy are great together.
I just felt that it was about time that someone from that cast became tabloid fodder. You know?
I totally agree! Look at her! She's being written about in People Magazine!
Yeah, and why couldn't that have happened earlier in the year?
Thank you! I totally agree.
You know that Ryan still prints the recaps out and brings them to the set.
You told me that once. But you know I didn't have any idea that they were still reading them. I thought I was so down on the second season that there'd be no point in distributing them.
We would laugh. Look, here's the truth. Half the shit we did was so lame that we were like, "Oh good, he gets that it's lame."
Well, there'd be these brilliant moments, and then there'd be all this Sam and Brooke stuff where you'd just hit the fast-forward button. Only I couldn't, because I had to watch the show and write a detailed recap. So I started feeling angry -- maybe more so than I should have been. I mean, I'm sure the WB was breathing down your necks.
Oh, they totally were. They totally refused to see that it was an ensemble show. They told us we had to make it all about the two girls. They told us we'd pulled too far away from that. And that the girls had to hate each other again.
Well, obviously something has to be going on between them. I mean, they can't just be friends or there's nothing to watch.
Well, that's why we brought the whole Harrison thing in.
And that's when it just fell apart.
The thing about that, though, is that it's become the equivalent of Felicity cutting her hair. We really thought we were going to come back. We thought that just like Felicity in her second season, we'd hit some "rough patches" [giggles]. I thought they'd bring us back for thirteen, we'd clean it up, then we'd get the nod and we'd keep going.
Right.
Felicity did worse than we did second season. And they were truly on the bubble. They were saved at the very last minute -- for while there they were like, "Felicity's not coming back, get used to it." So we just thought that they'd just bring us back for thirteen and then we'll see. And we even said, even if that's just for thirteen, that's fine. But we were bummed because we felt like we hit our stride again toward the end.
Well, that's the thing. There was the Harrison thing and I was writing in my recaps, "Oh my God! How much worse can this get?"
And you know, everyone had a really really bad reaction to that. I mean, sometimes we'd get letters from people who'd be like, "Oh, thanks that episode helped me so much." But literally, on the street, people would say to me, "What happened to your show? I got all my friends to watch it and now they think I'm an idiot!" And I don't know what to say to them, like I have any control over that. I mean, I'm Leslie, I read what's written. That's all I do. I don't have any creative control.
But here's the thing. Ryan wanted to push himself. Who can fault him for that? I have to admire that. Ryan is one of those people who...he's like Madonna, do you know what I mean? He's constantly, constantly changing. He's never the same. Literally from week to week he wants to do something different. And I respect that. But unfortunately...it got a bit maudlin...and people seriously didn't respond to that at all. Also, there was no place for me in all of that.
Well, first season, you and Nicole were more integrated into the main plot. The story would be about Sam and Brooke and then you would come in from the wings and be a part of that. You were like this unexpected bonus. Second season, it got kind of like how got toward the bitter end where you never see the storylines merge organically, and the actors from one storyline are never on camera with the actors from another storyline as if everything is being filmed as quickly as possible. There'd be a Sam and Brooke story, and then a wacky Mary Cherry and/or Nicole story thrown in as an afterthought.
Well, let me tell you something. The first season, everyone was exhausted. When it's your first season it's so exhausting, because you're learning everything and you're working crazy hours. We had an enormous regular cast and almost everyone was in every scene.
It's like ER.
Yes. We would all be working these seventeen-hour days and no one got days off. Nobody. We were all there every morning at 5:30, and we were all there, all day. You can't work your actors like that. You can't work your crew like that. There was so much coverage. Even if it was three quarters of a page. And ten people have to get all their coverage. And that takes forever. You know, the lights aren't set up the same way and there aren't three cameras recording your every move from a variety of angles and ranges. It's like making a movie. Each shot takes about an hour and that can be time consuming. By the end of the first season -- I can only speak for myself, but I was at my wits' end. I was really unhappy. The crew was really unhappy. People were so exhausted that there was not one ounce of fun. It was all dread. We were terrified. We would have a cafeteria scene and people would literally cry. They'd be like, "I can't do this!" The make-up artist would be like, "Have you seen what we're doing on Thursday?"
Why would a cafeteria scene be different? Because you all had to be there?
Forever! I wish you could have visited the set and you could have seen how it is. It is unbelievable the technical mastery that goes into everything.
So they had to divide it and set up the scenes so that there were no more than two or three people for most of the scenes. They had to do it that way. And second season? As far as our cast getting along with each other it was like night and day. First season, there was a lot of snarkiness. Second season it was great because -- well, first off, I took four episodes off which was great but I sort of regret it because people were like, "Are you still on the show?" It wasn't something that was mandated by the networks. I had to fight for it. I literally had not seen my husband in months. And it was not healthy. It's not like I'm Susie Homemaker and I don't believe I'm not supposed to be working -- it's hardly that.
You're just not seeing your husband for months at a time.
Exactly. It was ridiculous, I had no life.
Okay, I'm not nineteen. I have to have balance. Maybe it's just me as a person. Maybe I'm just more sensitive. But I couldn't work like that without a break. For me, taking those episodes off was a brilliant thing. It made the year so pleasant for me. And in addition to that, people who didn't have a few episodes off would have days off throughout the week -- and no one ever had a day off first season.
You work from Monday through Friday, you work until four a.m. You spend Saturday recovering, you have to learn your lines on Sunday and then you're back at work Monday morning at 5:30. Everyone was saying, there's no balance.
So I understand that the show probably suffered. But in the end, I don't care.
We used to get in trouble all the time because we'd say, oh, is this a "oner"? You know, just one camera set-up? And that wasn't exactly morale building. It's like saying, "When can we get the hell out of here?"
When we did "Caged," we thought it would be totally easy because all our scenes were in the Novak. Oh my God! It was a nightmare! There are all these rules that you never think about, like eye lines...I literally can't explain it without the TV in front of me. There are so many mathematical angles.
It's like shooting a fight scene in Star Wars, right? Every time you change camera angles, everything has to be in the same place it was in the last scene.
Exactly -- it was insane. We'd shoot things and they'd say, "Your eye line is off." It would be off by a centimeter, but it looked like I was looking at the ceiling. You have to be so precise and perfect. Even a one-page scene has seventeen shots. And you have to [do] a whole new lighting set-up for each shot. So most of the time you are sitting in your trailer waiting for them to finish setting up the shot. It was crazy. So it really made a huge difference to us to have some time off.
But there were parts that I missed. There used to be so many of these scenes with all of us that were so funny and so wacky. We never did that anymore. The only time we ever did that was the one that Ryan directed where we all got locked in the school.
I worship and love Bryce. He is such a great person. And somebody who...where would I have ever met Bryce in my life? He is the most fun to work with. He is hilarious. Me, him and Tamara would have such a good time together first season, but our storylines never connected second season so I never saw him. I missed that. I'd be like, "Oh, when can I do a scene with Bryce because he's so funny and he makes the day go faster?" But that ended.
But I loved everyone I worked with. I got to work with Tamara a lot, who is literally one of my closest friends now outside of work. In fact, she's picking me up and we're going to go to lunch.
Well, I was hoping you two would do something.
I would have loved that.
But then she started dating Josh and I was like, "What is up with that?"
You know, the networks really disliked our finale last year. They hated it. They were like, this is the most bizarre non-linear thing we've ever seen. They never saw it for what it was, which was a balls out comedy. For some reason they kept wanting to bring it back to Dawson's Creek. It's like a little kid that tears the heads off their doll. They didn't market it properly.
And let me tell you something. I was ignored by them. I can't even tell you. They had absolutely no interest in promoting me in any way. Everyone would get invited to go on these trips to meet the affiliates. I was invited once to go to...Oklahoma. I was like, "I'm going to pass, but thanks." Every little thing that was mentioned about Leslie or Carly, would be exploited on the WB website. The WB quotes Zap2It.com all the time. They are constantly referring to articles. They put me as best comedian last year and they never mentioned it. They ignored me.
Which was stupid, because Felicity was brought back because Keri Russell was a celebrity and they could sell the show that way. Carly and Leslie Bibb would get written about, but they were not break-out stars. If anyone became famous it was you or Tammy.
There were things I had to do that were stupid. Like when I had to sing fucking "Auld Lang Syne" in that Christmas episode. When I saw the script for that scene, I was like, "I refuse to learn this on the grounds that I look like an asshole." I don't know if you see this, but when I'm doing it, I'm just mouthing the words for a line or two and them I'm looking at Tamara and I'm laughing the whole time. There just something that we had to do.
But there was no continuity.
I just thought it was funny if there were continuity errors. And whenever somebody would say something like, "This doesn't make any sense, I hate her and now I'm hanging out with her and laughing?" Ryan would go, "It's TV." And he was right.
But there would be these people on the boards who were holding a vigil for when the show would be cancelled, but then they'd be the ones who were posting on the boards three or four times a day. They're seeing things we don't even notice and we're on the show. People would always get so upset about the continuity errors. I'd be like, why do you even care? We would make errors on purpose just to fuck with the audience. We thought it was funny. We were not out there trying to make it as real as we could. I mean, who wants to watch a show about teens having feelings? I have no desire to watch that.
What I was most proud of was that it was a gay show. And I'm not talking about the "Fag" episode, which I wasn't in and had nothing to do with, by the way.
And I noted that in my recap.
That show did not exist in my brain. I mean, I watched it because of Tamara -- and she's great in it. But that was not my cup of tea.
You were this gay show without having to do the "Very Special Episode," and even the "Very Special Episode" with Miss Debbie last year worked.
The show just had a gay sensibility. I cannot tell you how many letters I got from all these little lezzie and gay kids who'd tell me that it was great to see gay people being funny and that it wasn't such a big deal. That's the stuff that I'm really proud of. Like, when a fourteen-year-old gay kid comes up to me and says, "Are you Mary Cherry?" I'm like, yes, and I know he's so psyched. It would be like if I got to meet Divine or somebody. Not to compare myself to Divine, because she was a living legend. But we were so gay and so positive about being gay. I mean, we weren't even positive, we just were. It wasn't a big deal. It just was.
But they made us cut out a lot of stuff. They would always make references to me trying to find the love of my life, and it would be a "Liza lover," and we had to cut all that stuff out. The show tried to please everybody and went off into all these different directions. I had this friend -- he's a brilliant guy -- and he'd watch the show and he'd say to me, "I literally have no idea what just happened!" [laughs] That was disappointing. But you know, we worked our asses off, and you can't work that hard and not love that finished product.
Well, the problem is, when you're watching at home and 60 percent or more of the screen time is taken up by these serious plotlines that don't exactly go for the gold, you start feeling resentful that you're being asked to care about these stories that have no continuity. I mean, I wasn't expecting the funny stuff to be consistent, but when it got all serious, I thought that someone -- Ryan maybe -- should have been working his ass off to make it work. I mean, I think a lot of people either went to the bathroom or hit the fast-forward button when these plots came on, but again, I couldn't, because I had to recap it, and I would get mad. I felt, like, the writers don't care about these characters -- why should I if they're not going to make me laugh?
I guess I misspoke earlier. When I said we didn't care about continuity, I wasn't talking about the serious parts. I was just talking about the comedy. Otherwise, I agree with you. I mean, why should we care about a character that totally betrays himself every week?
Right, and if we're not supposed to care about these characters, why give one of them cancer?
Well, Chris worked really hard to do those episodes. He did such a great job. When he'd be off-camera, he'd literally cry. And we'd be all like, "Save it for the camera! Don't cry for me!" And he'd be like, "I can't. It's either all or nothing." I admire his talent so much and he's such a great person. I was glad that he'd been handed over this challenging storyline and felt so sad that people just attacked it.
Oh my God, my gardeners are attacking my house right now. It's like Bosnia out there.
Last year the helicopters reminded you of 'Nam; now your gardeners are reminding you of Bosnia. What kind of war zone do you live in?
It's really loud. I have no idea what they're doing. I think they're mowing something down. What are they doing? Aren't those things illegal?
What things?
I thought you couldn't use those blower things. And you can't yell at them, they're the gardeners. This is awful.
Was there any other major stuff -- scenes or storylines, for instance -- that we, the viewers, never saw?
In the homecoming scene, there was this whole Carrie theme. I got dumped with blood. Carmen got dumped with blood. I mean, I'm standing around for hours covered with fake blood. We did a whole perfect recreation of Carrie and after all that, it all got cut out. There were so many things that we worked so hard on that we had to cut out.
Like the Ru Paul thing? That was obviously cut short.
Okay, in the original, I faint. I come to. And when I do, I ask him how he met my mother. He says that they rubbed up against each other at a Linda Evans pool party.
Linda Evans? That's genius!
And he says that B. Ho is evil, and he always wondered about me and always wanted to be my father. But then he totally tells me he's poor. So I'm like, you know what? I'd rather be rich and alone than poor with you.
Aw!
So I'm all, I gotta reclaim what's mine, so I confront B. Ho in the hallway as she's going to the prom with five guys, but I get hauled in by a dog catcher. And I was gone for good. And it was going to be that, season, I was going to be in the pound and what we wanted to do -- Ryan and I thought this would be so funny -- would be that because the only married people I knew were Josh and Lily, I make them adopt me.
So then I would be this horrible naggy child. I would call Lily "Mommy" and I would whine if she didn't pack me a good lunch. I would wake them up at three in the morning and be like, "Can I have a glass of water?" or "I had a bad dream, could come and sleep with you guys?"
That would have been great!
Then obviously, eventually, my mother would come back and readopt me.
Because Cherry Cherry has to come back.
Look, was I pissed because they cut all that stuff out because they hated my storyline? At that point, I knew the show was cancelled anyway, so I didn't care.
We noticed that there were only 21 episodes.
Actually, a lot of shows have only 21 episodes. Especially the WB. When they got bought by AOL, they cut massively.
I thought the series finale seemed incomplete. Like there was a whole other episode of footage in there that that got cut.
We only knew we were going to have 21 episodes when we were on 18 or 19. But Roswell, Felicity, they only got 21 episodes too.
I didn't realize that.
Yeah, not all of them, but several shows only had 21 episodes. It really didn't mean anything. It was just that they were doing it to save money. Which is ridiculous. I mean, what is five million dollars to AOL? Do you know what I mean? I mean, that's how much money you save when you cancel six episodes.
And it seemed like you had the footage shot already. You just didn't have time to air it.
Look, we had no idea what was going on. We thought we were going to be cancelled. Then we didn't know. But the cancellation had no bearing on it at all. It wasn't a big conspiracy. I wish I could say it was, but it wasn't.
What was it like to work with Ru Paul?
Oh, I've known Ru for a long time. We met years and years ago through Randy and Fenton. You know who they are? They're those gay documentary filmmakers who did Eyes Of Tammy Faye. They gave me my very first job and introduced me to Ru Paul who was a friend of theirs.
He was a total doll and he was so much fun to work with. We were hoping -- if we got renewed -- he'd be a recurring guest star like Delta. I love him. He is so mellow. He's not a drama queen at all.
I've seen him out a lot in men's clothing.
He never wears drag when he's not performing. That to him is work.
It was really great, though, because we had all those little girls in that scene who were playing orphans, and they just loved him! Some people were worried that they might be freaked out, but it was just the opposite. They loved him and got their pictures taken with him. They loved him.
The Disney-fication of the drag queen.
Oh, and he is such the Disney drag queen.
A year ago, I asked you if you were being recognized on the streets. You said no. Has that changed?
No.
Really?
There's this street here, it's called Robertson. It's where the Ivy is and it's got all this really good shopping, so it's a place where a lot of celebrities go. So there are these guys that go around and they have catalogued pictures in the trunks of their cars. It's a network of guys.
Catalogued pictures of what?
Celebrities. And they page each other. On the weekends, they go to these places where they know celebrities will go. They station themselves there, find the celebrities, and page the photographer so that as you're coming out of a store they're waiting to take a picture of you. Tamara is always being photographed by these people. Anyway, I go to the GLAAD awards with Tamara, and I see this guy who I recognize because he's always photographing Tamara. So he comes up to Tamara and goes, "Aren't there going to be anymore cast members from Popular coming?" And I'm like, "am I invisible?"
When I'm with her, people will stop Tamara on the street to photograph her or ask her for her autograph and tell her how much they love the show, and they'll look right at me like I'm this lucky nobody who gets to hang out with Tamara and walk away. I don't wear make-up when I go out and I carry myself differently so people just don't recognize me at all. I think it's hilarious. I kind of love it.
Sometimes if I'm in a store or something and it doesn't occur to me that anyone's recognizing me and on my way out, the person who is helping me will say, "Oh, how's the season going?" I mean, in Los Angeles, a lot of people who are in the business are walking around, so it's common that some stranger will casually say something to you about the show. But it's totally mellow. It's not like you're being mobbed. Sorry to disappoint.
Oh, I'm not disappointed. It's just so weird that, to me, you're this celebrity. But where you come from you have this very normal existence.
Oh, whenever I go to weddings, someone will come up to me with their fourteen-year-old niece and be like, "Oh my God, she is just dying to meet you!" But really, it's not like paparazzi are hiding in my bushes.
Do you have any brushes with celebrities you'd like to tell us about?
Um, let me think. How about Thanksgiving with Teri Garr?
Okay. Let's hear it.
No. That's not glamorous. [laughs] Let me think.
Do you come in contact with a lot of Scientologists?
Sort of. People don't really talk about it, though. I drive past the Celebrity Center all the time. It's like a huge hotel. I think it's where you can hang out with celebrities and "get clear." I have no idea. I mean, everyone I know is totally freaked out by it.
I hear a lot of people join up hoping it will help their careers.
Oh, of course. It's like those people who go to twelve-step meetings who aren't even alcoholics. It's a great way to make connections. It's a little networking world full of stars. That's nothing compared to what people will do to be a star. People would literally sell their souls to the devil to be famous. Of course they'd become Scientologists. It's so easy.
But people are kind of secretive about it. I mean, you find out about certain people and you're like, "Oh my God, did you hear about so-and-so?"
So I was obsessed with Tom and Nicole this year. Who were you obsessed with?
Well, I have always been obsessed with Angelina Jolie and Billy Bob Thornton. Okay, first of all, have you seen the David La Chapelle pictures of her in the new Rolling Stone?
No.
They're not like his usual pictures at all. She looks so beautiful in them. It's shocking. And I just find her to be so gorgeous and crazy that I literally cannot get enough of her. Billy Bob, he's like a male anorexic...
A "manorexic."
Exactly. And I find the whole thing totally fascinating. Any article about her, I will read. I mean, Tom and Nicole, I was like, "Eh?" But I was obsessed with Angie and Billy and I always will be. She is so crazy!
When they get a divorce, hello? I'm going to be in magazine stores for the rest of my life.
Or she'll kill herself. That's the thing about her. You never know. She could totally commit suicide publicly and I wouldn't be surprised.
Now wait. Do you really think she's crazy or is she putting on an act? We talk about this on Fametracker. And I don't mean this to denigrate her at all. I think she may be a little wild. A little neurotic. Kind of young. But basically it's a brilliant, brilliant act...but I don't care because it's so goddamn entertaining.
No, I'm telling you right now. This is what happens to people when they don't go to college. When people aren't able to read Foucault while sitting in the corner, smoking cigarettes and drinking red wine while thinking they discovered Charles Bukowski -- when people don't get to get that out of their system in a really safe environment like college, they become crazy.
Every girl I went to Sarah Lawrence with who was like that got over it. In a way, I think she really is that pretentious. Like the whole wearing Billy Bob's blood around her neck? I literally knew girls who did that in college.
You know I knew girls like that too, but they always seemed so fake to me. When she does it, I'm totally taken in.
Oh me too. It's because she's so stunning. She's so beautiful.
How did you get the news that you were cancelled and that you were unemployed?
Ryan left me a message. I felt so bad for him. He wanted to go on vacation so he'd be gone when they made the announcements, and they told him early. They were going to make the announcement Monday, and they told him that Friday. When his plane landed in Miami, he called his assistant and she was like, "There are several urgent messages for you from the network!" So he had to find out that way, and he called me right away which was really nice. He and I are such good friends outside of work. So he called me and my first instinct was, you know what? This is all for the best. Being twenty-nine and playing a teenager on television is really hard. Everyone makes remarks about your age.
I never had a problem with it.
Well, I always thought it was part of the charm. But how far can your career go when you're on a low-rated WB show? That's not my dream. But it was my first foot in the door in television. It was an incredibly positive experience. We learned buttloads. Oh wait, don't say that.
Heaps?
Yeah. But not just about acting and making a television show. I also learned what I wanted out of my career and what I didn't want. I learned everything. Literally, everything. I don't regret it. I look back and I think, I can't believe I had a two-year run. That was phenomenal. And I was doing something I thought was different and interesting. I have really fun stuff to put on my reel. Casting directors know who I am. I mean, it doesn't mean they give me the job, but when I walk in they're like, "You're so funny," whereas before they were like, "Who are you? Where are you from?"
I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm still low down on the food chain. It's not like I've done Must See TV for the past four years. Most people have no clue who I am.
The hardest part, to be perfectly frank, is not having the money. It's just really nice to be employed and to have a family. I mean, I know that's such a cliché but that's what we were. We worked together 90 hours a week. You make bonds with people. I loved our dolly grip. I loved our boom guy. I loved working for Ryan -- someone who became a good friend of mine who wrote for my sensibility. When is that going to happen again?
The hardest part of all of this -- Tamara and I were talking about this -- we're like, "Dude, we're back in pilot season." You have to go back out there again. I used to have a job and now I'm duking it out with everybody else.
It must be like having a boyfriend for a long time and then being single again.
Exactly. You get complacent. You get lazy and fat and all of a sudden you have to lose weight and go on dates and be all, "Oh gee, you're a Scientologist? How neat!" And at the time you were like, "Oh my God, this person is dominating all my time, I wish it would end." And then when it does, you're like, "Okay, what do I do now?"
I used to audition all the time, and I'd go back and back and back, and we'd go to network, I'd lose out to someone else, and then my agent would hear back from them something like, "She's very talented but we don't know what to do with her." And you know what? I sort of like that. I'd rather be doing my own thing than to be a cookie-cutter ingénue who works for ten years and then has nowhere to go from there.
The career I most admire is Megan Mullally from Will & Grace. I remember watching her on that show and going, "Who is that?" And she's no spring chicken. She did Broadway for years. I mean, obviously I don't want to have to wait that long, but the people that I really admire and inspire me -- those are the women who don't fit in. I want to find another project that's right for me. I want to do a three-camera sitcom so badly.
What was up with that TV Guide article about you and Tammy getting a project?
I know as much about that as you do. I found out about that from my dad, who found it while trolling the internet. No one has approached me about that. That was the first I'd heard of it and the last I heard of it. I mean, I would totally do that. A sitcom with me and Tammy? That would be perfect.
What do you envision as the perfect sitcom role for you?
Playing Megan Mullally's sister. Or if Karen got a girlfriend. I would be so there. That would be my dream.
That should totally happen. Have you ever talked to anyone at Will & Grace?
No, but I have to. I have to go buddy up to that Max Munch-nik or whatever [Mutchnick, a writer on W&G]. He has to fall in love with me.
Unless he already has. I mean, they have to know who you are. Popular was the other gay show.
Except they had a little more success than we did. [laughs]. Just a titch!
A bunch of us were talking about this. You'll totally work again, but our biggest fear for your career is that you'd get cast in this project that would sound cool while it was in development, so you'd sign on the dotted line but then someone horrible with a big name like Brooke Shields or Kirstie Alley would get cast and demand all these changes. Then you'd be stuck in this horrifying sitcom and everyone would associate you with something like Suddenly Susan or Veronica's Closet and it would ruin you. You'd walk down the street and everyone would be like, "Hey, there goes Lea Thompson's wacky sidekick!"
Okay, that could totally happen but if it does, please note that I'll probably know that it was horrible. I mean, I'd get it, you know?
The money you make acting is so good. It's exorbitant what they pay you and you're not doing rocket science. There's a lot harder ways to earn your money.
So, yeah, I'm sure that you will see me in things that are bad. But keep in mind, I'm like a pound puppy. Okay? I just want to be loved. Hire me!