What can I say? Tammy Lynn Michaels and I met "cute." And just like in those old movies, we hated each other at first. We fought constantly. I even fought with friends of hers. Soon, though, we gave into our secret desires and learned that love can bloom under the strangest of circumstances.
What happened on the Popular boards the night of the series finale is now legend. A new poster named "BitchslaptheWB" appeared in the forums claiming to be Tammy Lynn Michaels. She thanked us for her support and spoke bitterly about the WB. Some of us dropped to our knees to worship her, but others (well...yours truly) didn't buy it and the thread was closed. "Tammy" started posting on another thread on the Popular boards and kept insisting she was legit, so I had her banned.
Now, you'd think that I'd be thrilled that Tammy Lynn Michaels was posting on our boards, but I'm one of those truly neurotic individuals who hates to be wrong more than anything. I hate being wrong so much that I wanted "BitchslaptheWB" be an imposter just so I wouldn't have to be wrong. So I ignored any evidence of Tammy's authenticity and stuck to my guns. I started to receive emails from a friend of Tammy's, who begged me to call her so they could straighten this out. Not only did I get into an email fight with her, but I also cc'ed my snappy retorts to Tammy's "friend" and sent them to my fellow MBTV writers so we could all have a good laugh. Who is this idiot who keeps trying to convince me they know Tammy Lynn Michaels, I'd wonder. Don't they realize what a true insider I am? I am Gustave! I am an omnipotent gay man who went to high school with Matt LeBlanc from Friends and reads Vanity Fair religiously. I know bullshit when I see it!
So you can only imagine the utter humiliation I felt when Leslie Grossman, in the middle of our interview, revealed to me that "Bitchslap" was in fact Tammy Lynn Michaels. It was like a truck had hit me. For hours after I hung up the phone with Leslie, I lay on my couch in a stupor, trying to figure out how to save my reputation. I hoped that maybe Tammy had been so pissed off with me that she'd never go near the Popular boards again and I'd never have to tell a soul what went down. But soon I realized that my plan wouldn't work, because Leslie had just spilled the beans in her interview. I was a dead man...unless I "accidentally" erased the Leslie Grossman tapes or pulled a Nixon on parts of them. And believe me, I considered doing just that for a few minutes.
But you know what's funny about writing for MBTV? People don't really expect you to be pleasant or diplomatic. So when you're actually being nice, it's a total shock to everyone and subsequently the tiniest amount of ass-kissing can go a long way. To make a long story short, Tammy not only forgave me, but she even agreed to be interviewed. I assumed she wanted her new relationship with Melissa Etheridge kept out of the conversation, so I promised her we'd only talk shop. Surprisingly, she insisted that she was open to any question I'd have, including ones about Melissa. She even told me that I was getting her first post-closet interview -- which may not be true at this point, since it took me so long to type this thing up.
But here's what truly made me love Tammy: before I turned the tape recorder on, she told me some off-the-record dirt about someone famous she knew that was so deliciously nasty and so unexpected, it took the paint off my walls. No, I will never reveal what she told me, but I just wanted to mention this so you would all envy me. You see, it's been a strange couple of months, and I deserve to feel a little superiority for my troubles.
And now, the interview...
MBTV: Jeez, you sound just like Nicole. When I talked to Leslie she sounded nothing like Mary Cherry but...I'm talking to Nicole right now.
Tammy Lynn Michaels: Yeah, Grossman truly played a character. Mary Cherry was nothing like her. She had a different voice, posture and everything. I bring more of myself to the role. I mean, I'm not that much of a bitch or anything, but my voice and posture is also Nicole's.
So wait, you live in Brooklyn?
Yeah. Boerum Hill.
I spent a year in Bensonhurst and then I lived in Park Slope with the rest of the dykes.
You were a Park Slope dyke? No way! Ryan said you arrived at the Popular audition straight off the bus from the Midwest. The myth-making! The branding!
I am from Lafayette, Indiana, but I lived in New York for a while.
If this were a Vanity Fair cover article, what would we be doing now?
We'd go to Moomba. Then we'd go for side-by-side massages at some fabulous spa. And then at about seven after we'd had mannies and peddies, we would head over to Lotus and we'd sit in the balcony so we could view our public.
Have you ever been to Lotus in real life?
Yeah. I went there for Melissa's birthday.
And Melissa is...
My girlfriend? Don't you read People? [laughs]
Anyway, there were supposed to be four of us for dinner but then Alan came and brought six people. And then his friends came and brought more people. My one friend who came had to sit at another table altogether.
Who is Alan? Alan Alda?
No. Alan Cummings.
Oh! Big difference.
Oh, I have to tell you this. The funniest thing I ever read in my life was that last recap where you went off on me and Melissa. Melissa thought that was hysterical. We laughed for an hour. "She weeps into a pillow from ABC Carpet"? Genius.
No shit! Melissa read that? Get out!
Yeah, I made her come over and I logged on and showed it to her. She lost her mind.
That is so weird. I had no idea anyone famous, let alone Melissa Etheridge, would be reading this stuff. She liked it?
She was a little freaked out about the "aging rocker" comment but she thought it was pretty funny.
If I had any idea she'd read that, I wouldn't have said that. Please tell her I'm sorry.
Okay.
What do you watch on TV?
Well, because Popular took up so much of my time, I lost touch with other television. The only thing I'd watch were the Real World [and] Road Rules marathons on Saturday. Can we talk about Julie, that poor little Mormon?
Oh, and I watched Big Brother. "There's no class without Cass!" She was so dignified, I so dug her.
What magazines do you read?
The most amazing day of my entire life was when I went up to Leslie Grossman's beach house in Malibu for her bridal shower and when I walked in, there was pop, chips, candy and literally every tabloid from last year.
You know, normally I love to read trashy magazines, especially the tabloids. I read everything: The Globe, the Enquirer, Bazaar, Hello Magazine, that British magazine...
I love Hello Magazine. Could we talk about that for several hours?
Oh, I know. Also, People, Us Weekly, Teen People, Premiere and Entertainment Weekly. And I think that's it. But now that I'm being written about in half of those publications... [laughs] It's not quite as much fun as it used to be.
I asked Leslie this also. Before the whole Melissa thing, what was your experience fame-wise with Popular being such a big deal?
Leslie is lucky, by the way. She never gets recognized.
When Popular first started airing, I got a lot of double takes and whisperings. I lived in the sweetest little apartment building. One of the little girls in the apartment building recognized me and started telling all her friends that Nicole Julian lived in her building.
Aw! That's so cute!
Well, not exactly. Saturdays and Sundays when I really needed my sleep -- I mean, our work weeks were insane -- these girls would line up outside my door for autographs. And I would get letters shoved under my door from little girls and then they'd knock. I began to feel like the walls were closing in. I mean, granted, they were all little girls who really liked the show but I just really want to hang out in my bathrobe with a cup of coffee.
That must be creepy. I went to college with Debbie Gibson's sister back in the early nineties when Debbie was huge, and apparently the same thing would happen at her house on Long Island. People would literally knock on her door.
Yeah. And her mother even admitted that her daughter was bringing her friends around. I had to say to her, "You know what? I really really like living here but could you tell your daughter not to tell her friends where I live?" And the woman looked at me like she didn't understand a goddamn thing I was saying. It was like I was speaking Latin. I had to move out of my building. So yeah, it really affected my life.
And then on the street -- I think because of how aggressive and mean Nicole was -- all these little girls would follow me but stay ten feet behind me. They were afraid to approach me. But every time I'd look in their direction, they'd freak out and run away. That was a little frustrating because I'd be like, "Hey man, c'mon! Come talk to me!" You know, I wanted them to realize that Nicole was just a role I played.
And then -- and this was something that really really freaked me out in the beginning -- I would get yelled at a lot. I guess Nicole really embodied everyone's bully...everyone's bitch. I get yelled at at the mall. Punk boys will walk up to me and go, "Hey Nic, nice tits!"
Oh my God! I've heard of that happening to soap-opera characters like Erica Kane. People really identify with people they see on TV. It's scary!
I was at the supermarket. I was in the mood to make guacamole...
You are such a lesbian.
I know, right? But there I was, it's like two in the afternoon. I've literally rolled out of bed, I've got a pair of inside-out sweats, a t-shirt and a Yankee's cap on. I'm standing in the "ten items or less" line carrying one of those red plastic baskets with a couple of avocados, an onion and some garlic, and in front of me, there's this mother standing there and she's calling out to her daughter. The daughter comes up with whatever item they forgot and the daughter looks at me and goes [shrieks] really loud and then grabs her mother and goes, "Oh my God, mom, that's Nicole! She's mean. There's this girl Carmen and she's really overweight and Nicole makes fun of her." And she goes on to explain to her mother the entire plot of Popular but as though it was all happening at her school. Her mother turns around and goes, "How could you?"
"Um, 'cause it was in the script?"
I was like [mock crying], "I just want to make some guacamole!"
I became a dare among groups of girls -- like who would be the one brave enough to go up to Nicole on the 3rd Street promenade and diss her. At first I took it personally, but after a while I started to recognize that these girls were just saying to me what they needed to say to the girl who was bullying them in real life. I was just the embodiment of whatever haunted them. Eventually I'd be glad they were getting it out of their systems and I stopped taking it personally. But it was a little freaky in the beginning.
I would imagine.
I mean, there were some nice moments too. Little gay boys were the best. They'd be like, "You're fabulous!" They loved Nicole. They taped the show and they'd rewind scenes over and over again and memorize her nasty little comments. They were so enthusiastic and ecstatic, it made me feel so good. One night I wanted to go dancing and -- as you know -- boy bars have the best dancing, and so I go, and for an hour it was like boy after boy and we all danced together and had a good time. It was great because they love Nicole, but they realize I'm Tammy too and so they drop it and have a good time.
I asked Leslie this as well -- what story has you obsessed lately? Tom and Nicole?
You know, I have no idea what's up with Tom and Nicole. I really have no clue. I don't even have a colorful theory.
Robert Blake? Are you into that?
You know, it's so OJ, I can't even go there. I mean, didn't this already happen? It's like a bad sequel.
Besides the political stuff that's been going on lately, I am obsessed with Jon Benet Ramsey. I just read the book, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town. It breaks my heart that they can't find out who the killer is.
I think it was the mother. Or at least one of the parents.
If it's one of the parents, they are both in on the cover-up. The thing that fascinates me is that they swore up and down that the son was asleep when they first found her missing, but when they play back the 911 tapes, you can clearly hear his voice in the background.
Oh, and I am obsessed with Britney Spears. Okay, I don't have a lesbian crush on her or anything, but I want her body. Literally. I want that body underneath my head. I want to look like that.
I have a boy crush on Ricky Martin. He is so sexy and he's a phenomenal entertainer. I wish my ass looked as good in leather pants. I don't want to sleep with Ricky Martin, I want to be him.
Do you think he'll ever come out?
[diplomatically] I don't know if he's gay.
[laughs] Good one.
No, I'm serious. I mean, we really don't know anything about him, do we?
Well, he does seem to be...
Talented?
Uh, yeah, but even he has said some ambiguous things about his sex life. Did you see that Barbara Walters interview? If he's not gay, he's definitely trying to keep both of his fan bases.
Or he's just a sexually charged performer who attracts a gay fan base. Once you get the gay boys there, you have a loyal following.
It's true.
And I love them.
Who else do you like musically?
I love Aerosmith.
Did your agent ever tell you to put on a Catholic schoolgirl's uniform and go audition for Aerosmith? You know, Alicia Silverstone? Liv Tyler?
Oh! No, I haven't but I would so love to.
I also love Joni Mitchell, Billy Joel, John Denver, Neil Diamond, Macy Gray, Lenny Kravitz, Bruce Springsteen, Cake, Loretta Lynn. My favorite album ever is the Romeo + Juliet soundtrack.
Did you see Moulin Rouge?
Can we talk about "Lady Marmalade"? Whenever I see that video I feel a shot of endorphins and hormones heading toward my lady area. Give me a margarita and put that song on and I'm a one-woman party. I love Lil' Kim, Mya, and Christina. I love to see strong women.
I have a boy crush on Mya. Don't ask me why.
I like Pink. She's so East Village.
So, speaking of female musicians, how did you meet Melissa? I mean, I can ask that, right?
Um, yeah.
Anyway, I was out with a bunch of girlfriends. Popular had literally wrapped for the season -- and the series, for that matter -- the night before. I had been avoiding gay bars the entire time I was working so all of a sudden I was like, "Let's go out! C'mon, girls, I don't care who sees me!" So we were sitting at this table and there she was. So up until then, I'd been living in a virtual tunnel for the past ten years. I mean, I knew who she was, but I wasn't super aware. I mean, I'm not a celebrity stalker, or anything. But you know, I just thought she was cool. So my friends were egging me on to go up and talk to her. They were like, "Ask her out! Ask her out!" I was like, "No!" and so they started coming up with really cheesy pick-up lines for me to say to her. Now, you'd think my friends would realize that women don't go for the cheesy lines, but they kept egging me on. So I decided to show them how to pick up a woman. I mean, I really just wanted to get them off my case. So this guy -- a gay boy who worked with me on Popular -- offered to introduce me. He introduced us and I was like, "I'd like to take you out to dinner." And she was like, "Okay!"
I really thought she'd be like, "Oh no, but thank you," and then my friends would shut up, but she said yes and I was like, "Oh shit!" [laughs]
So it was really crazy and Melissa and I laugh about it now. I'm always asking her, "What were you thinking?"
What was she thinking?
Well...? I'm not going to speak for her.
Anyway, we were just going to go out to dinner as friends and have a good time, which is what happened at first. It turned out we had a lot in common, we're both from the Midwest and we've both been through struggles and -- since her book came out, I can say this -- we both went through abuse. So we had so much in common. I mean, there was just this unspoken language. So then it just kept going and going and we started being more than friends.
And then she's raving about you in People magazine.
Melissa and I really don't put much emphasis on what's being written about us. We know what the truth is and that's the most important thing. The thing that was such a big deal for me was the tiny item in People when we first started dating. That was a milestone for me because finally my truth was out there. But we really don't think about what's being written about us.
But you have to admit that an announcement in People is a big deal. Sure, she's not giving intimate details of your lives and itemizing every little thing you guys do together. But you don't tell People Magazine that you're seeing someone unless you believe that relationship is going to work out.
There is definitely an unnatural acceleration of a relationship when you're famous. You can't just be dating and hanging out and deciding if you're going to be serious about someone while people are writing stuff about you. I mean, we'd known each other a month and all of a sudden we were mentioned in a gossip column. It makes you sit down and go, "Hey, where is this going?" We should totally be in the honeymoon phase of our relationship but we're under a microscope. That's weird.
But Melissa has already gone through this. She must be a pro at this sort of thing...relatively.
Well, she was out before, but she was with Julie when she came out so it's different. Julie wasn't famous or anything. I had a name because of Popular and so when we hooked up and we were both famous, it was like this big fireball.
On some level, it's awesome that we're all gossiping about this. Lesbians used to be either invisible or some object of scandal. Now housewives in middle America read about Melissa Etheridge's new girlfriend in People while standing in the checkout line at the supermarket.
Really? It's great that I have to put down magazines and turn off the TV for the several weeks?
Yeah. I mean, I understand that it sucks for you to be under a microscope, but I'm sure it sucks just as much to be in a high-profile straight relationship.
I'm not aware of what is going on out there. Friends of mine call me and they're like, "You are such water-cooler talk," but I have no idea what people are saying about me.
Well, it's not Tom and Nicole and it's not vicious or anything. The people in my office are like, "Oh wow, Melissa has a new younger girlfriend." It's not pro-gay. It's not anti-gay. It's just gossip. And I think that's progress.
Exactly. I mean, it sucks that people emphasize the age difference, but it's great that no one is emphasizing anything else.
But I have to say, Kate Hudson and her husband have the exact same age difference and nobody's picking on them.
Well, that's because everyone is focused on the aesthetic difference, if you catch my drift. No one cares that he's older than her. It's that she's so much better looking than him.
That's true, but nobody's picking on the age difference. It's great that that's the only thing they could find to pick on us about.
I mean, I think on some level, the public prefers the truth. They don't like being lied to, even if the truth isn't so easy to take. Take Bill Clinton. He handled the Gennifer Flowers thing respectfully and got elected but when he lied about Monica, people really got mad.
Or Kevin Spacey. I don't think he owes it to anyone to come out of the closet, but if he's going to make a big deal about how straight he is and everyone knows otherwise, he looks like a fool.
[diplomatically] Well, all I have to say about that situation is that I don't know the man, but he's a very talented actor and his sexuality is none of my business.
[pause] Nice try.
[laughter] Poor guy. Being with Melissa gave me so much bravery. I didn't have to go through this alone.
Okay, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm implying that there was a mercenary motive to your hooking up with Melissa Etheridge, but you are dating one of the most famous lesbians right now, and that must have changed things for you.
Has it?
Well, you tell me. All of a sudden the tabloids are talking about you, Tammy, and not the character you played on TV. Aren't things different for you?
Not as far as my fans go. I mean, this whole Melissa Etheridge thing is weird for me because in reality, I am so blessed with such a wonderful, incredible girlfriend. Then on the other hand, everyone is talking about it like I just made a career move and I'm like, "But it's so much more than that!" And that's hard to explain to people.
Also it's weird because I was never out before and none of my girlfriends were out. When I was closeted, it wasn't just hypocritical and un-PC, it was also killing me. I wasn't raised to lie. I hate lying. The whole thing drove me to go into therapy. But as awful as the closet was, it protected a vulnerable side of me, if that makes any sense.
I love women. And so to be with somebody who is comfortable with their sexuality -- because I'd never been with someone who was, I guess -- was wonderful. But then to turn around and have my relationship written about is such a shock. I mean, it's such a special side of myself and there it is for all the world to see and speculate on.
Especially since you have to contend with the memory of Anne Heche and Julie Cypher, who weren't "real lesbians," and there's this sense that the younger girl in a girl-girl relationship is faking it for publicity or money or something.
And I just say, poor thing! It's so hard to go through stuff in public. I totally have compassion for that. Especially now.
And Melissa isn't just famous, she's a famous lesbian. I mean, before her, there were no other out lesbians who sold records on such a massive scale. She was one of the first. She had to invent that role. And now, you're not just out, you're in this high-profile relationship, although it must be comforting to be in a relationship with someone who has weathered this before.
There's definitely an advantage to that. I've never been with anyone before who was so comfortable with her sexuality, and I didn't realize that until all this started happening and I started thinking that all my relationships were with people who'd be like, "Don't tell anybody, I won't go to any parties with you, just tell me about them when you get home and okay, what's our story, why are we such good friends?" It got to a point where I realized I had only been with all these closeted homophobic lesbians.
So it wasn't just that you had to keep your relationships a secret, you had a bunch of very willing accomplices?
Exactly. Not only did I have an agent who was up my ass, trying to get me to acquire a beard and so forth, I'd also have girlfriends who would be like, "You can't tell anybody!" I mean, what am I going to do? Out them? So everybody in my life was encouraging me to lie and it drove me crazy.
It's strange, because I've never had a job where my personal life mattered. And I'm not just talking about gay stuff, either. You have a job where who you date is part of your figurative résumé.
Yeah.
And it's strange that you were working for the "other gay show" and you were presenting GLAAD awards and so forth, and yet you were being actively discouraged from coming out.
Well, Popular was a gay show but when you get right down to it, we were working for the WB.
So these past couple of months have been a huge change for you.
Yeah, the last five months have been crazy. I mean, this was weighing heavily on me for the past two and a half years, I was always worried about it, but now I don't give a shit.
But you know, I had a lot of support from a lot of other people. My mother was great. I came out to her when I was about nineteen and she was like, "You know what? If you think that this is who you are, this is who you are. And if you turn out to be straight or bisexual, I love you anyway. You are always welcome in my home and so is anyone you are with." And most of my friends from childhood were so cool with it. I mean, I lost a couple of friends but most of the important people in my life just accepted it.
When Popular was first on the air, people would ask my old friends from back home about me, and they'd call me up and be like, "What should I tell them? I shouldn't tell them you have a girlfriend, right?" and they'd lie for me -- because they're good friends who have my back. But then I started to realize that not only was I being forced to lie about my sexuality, my friends had to lie for me too. It was exhausting!
So now all I have to worry about now is being me.
Did Melissa watch Popular before she met you?
Well, she wasn't an avid fan or anything. I mean, she couldn't remember the names of any of the characters, but she watched it. She said to me, "Oh! I know that show! You know, whenever those girls' parents come on-screen, I change the channel."
No! [laughs]
I'm not shitting you. [laughs] That's what she said.
Well, at least that proved she watched Popular. I mean, if she said she watched every second of it, you'd know she was lying.
Oh, I know.
One of the best parts of first-season Popular -- besides the overall wackiness -- was the relationship between Brooke and Nicole. On the boards, we were always debating what was up with you two. Like if it was more than friendship?
Well, I approached the characterization thinking that Nicole was probably the loneliest girl in school and she probably had learned this behavior at home. She didn't feel loved, so when people looked at her and wanted her looks and wanted her boobs and wanted her sex life, that jealousy -- to her -- was love. Also, Brooke was the closest thing Nicole had to a loving mother.
At first I told Ryan that I wanted two gay dads. I wanted there to be a scene at a breakfast table where the three of us were just trading barbs back and forth. They never went there, obviously, but that was my own personal explanation for why Nicole was basically a bitchy fag. But Harrison's mom was gay, and the networks just thought the show was too gay, so we couldn't go there.
So then when it came down to having straight parents, I said that I wanted my parents to be politicians. You know, because politicians are such two-faced liars, and that would explain where I got my almost mathematical sense of social survival. So that's how my adoptive mother ended up being political. I liked how they got someone who kind of looked like me and was calculating like me -- so it clearly showed that my environment had caused me to be the bitch that I was.
I said in my recap that I was expecting someone fabulously kittenish like Joan Collins. Actually, I even said that I wanted you to have a gay dad.
Oh, but she was really attractive in that hardened icy -- almost masculine -- way. I thought it was great casting. The thing I really didn't like -- and I mentioned this on the boards -- was that I had to boo-hoo my way through most of second season.
And your relationship with Brooke just disappeared. I mean, you and Mary Cherry being best friends was twice the laughs, so to speak, but there was something really predictable about it. The Brooke thing humanized Nicole in a really subtle way and made things interesting. It wasn't so obvious like the adoption storyline.
I will never say anything bad because I loved working with Grossman so much. I mean, yeah, I'm sure everyone was sitting around and going, "Oh gee, Nicole and Brooke aren't friends anymore," but it was so much fun to work with Grossman. But I'll be the first to admit we weren't exactly known for continuity. We had a lot of great writers and a lot of great ideas and sometimes too many great ideas were thrown into one script.
Yeah, like there's this one scene in the airport where you are all going on spring break, and the last episode had been "Coup," and when that ended, you were friends with no one, and then all of a sudden, here you are hanging out in the airport with the gang like nothing ever happened. And you have this look on your face like, what am I doing in the scene.
Well, I was also majorly PMSing at the time. But basically, when Nicole is down, she holds grudges, but when she's back on top, she doesn't think twice. That's how I justified that to myself. My own motivation for that scene was, "As soon as I get there, I'm going to find some rich guy to shack up with." I never played a scene as though I cared about anyone. Every scene was just a way to get to a hot guy with a lot money -- whether it was Carmen's brother or some married guy.
And by the way? I had no idea you were gay. I thought maybe you'd had a couple of experiences or something, but I had no idea that "coming out" would be an issue for you.
If you go back, you can read the interviews I did when I was in the closet and I was so terrified. Before I'd do them, all my managers and all my agents would be like [frantically], "Don't tell them you're gay! You'll be ruined! You'll never work again! You'll be working at McDonald's in a month!" I was so terrified.
I hated those interviews. I'd change the pronouns whenever I'd talk about relationships. You know? "She" would become "he" and "her" would become "him." I hated doing those. And even in that Teen Vogue article I did, I was talking about something very personal to me, my issues about weight and body image, but I couldn't talk about my own struggle with my sexuality. It was frustrating because I knew that I was projecting something that I'm not. I want to be happy, and when I'm eighty it's not going to matter how much money I've made or what my fans think of me, but if my bed is empty because I've been a liar my whole life, then I've wasted my whole life.
And so -- I finally came to the point where I couldn't live my life like that. And everyone is telling me, "Don't do it, you're young and you're pretty and you have your whole career ahead of you and you're going to ruin everything," and I was like, "You know, I have to decide what my priorities are." So I took their priorities and threw them out the window and put mine in place. I literally landed in a shrink's office and I was like, "I'm going crazy!" And he was like, "Okay, your life is totally fragmented and there are cracks all over the place. You've got to pull yourself together and figure out how to simplify your life." And I was like, "The only way I know how to do that is to start being honest." And so I had started down that path and then I met Melissa.
Okay, so now I'm getting back to the question you asked me twenty minutes ago [laughs]. I was thrust into the public eye because of Popular but because it wasn't really me, I was very detached from that "Tammy Lynn Michaels" out there. But now people really are getting to know who I am and they know who I love, and I haven't hidden anything. But they don't know much about me, but the fact is that that side of me is out there, literally served up to society on a silver platter, like, "Okay, you're either going to eat this, or you're going to throw it back in my face." So that's a whole new experience, but to tell you the truth, I would much rather have my honesty and my truth thrown out there, than have to hold everything back.
Don't get me wrong. I'm fully capable of having crushes on boys. I won't marry them, but I would so make out with them. I had a boyfriend in high school, he was such a great guy, we used to laugh and laugh. I like women for the most part, but men are hot. That's the best part of being an actress, you get to make out with all these hot men without having to date them afterwards. I am the first person to grovel and drool when Ashton Kutcher comes on the screen. The guy is gorgeous.
Have you ever met him face to face?
Yeah. He's amazing looking.
Um, I probably shouldn't say this out loud but he's the reason Sars and I went to see Dude, Where's My Car? in the theater.
I had a crush on all fifty crew guys from Popular. They were so sweet. They became my brothers, my fathers, my sons. They were a beautiful, warm encompassing group of men and I worshipped them all. But I'm into women. What it all comes down to is how honest you are with yourself. And I am not out here to judge anybody. I mean, you can question your sexuality and be with a woman and then go back to men after some things have happened publicly, but I'm not one to judge. I mean, sure, I have my opinions that I may share privately with my friends but ultimately, it's not up to me.
My mother was married to this man for ten years. He taught psychology and sexuality in college, and his belief was that it's a continuum. I mean, you could be really into women for the beginning of your life but then you could fall out of love with women and then want to be with a man. It's like how you can fall in and out of love with different people.
The spiritual side of me would like to think that you fall in love with whoever you are meant to be with -- the inner beauty. You should fall in love with what's inside and then find a way to make love to the outside. But I know that I dig chicks, period, and that's okay.
I know that my mother just wanted me to be happy. She came from a small town. She got a divorce -- she was the only person to get a divorce in that town and she was an outcast. A complete fucking outcast.
When was this?
1974. And nobody liked the man that she married anyway -- my sperm donor -- and so the family outcast her for marrying him and then she was an outcast for divorcing him. So she was determined never to judge her daughters for who they loved. So when I said I loved women, she said, "You know what? That's not for me to judge." And I think that if I actually turned around and said to her, "I have a boyfriend," she would be suicidal. She so loves the rainbow flag.
Oh yeah, my mother totally wants me to marry someone -- anyone -- so she can be the first parent in the neighborhood to have a same-sex wedding. The pressure is intense.
Okay, wait, I have to have a cigarette.
That's not a Marlboro Light, is it?
No, it's a Camel Ultra Light.
Noted.
I haven't smoked long but I'm already getting tired of it.
How was it finding out that Popular had been cancelled? What was that like?
At the beginning of May, Michael Robbins, one of the producers, called me. [pause] God bless the man, but he's not the person you want to hear bad news from. I mean, I love him, but he's like your older brother who can't...
Break it to you with any finesse whatsoever?
Yeah. So he was like, "I just got a phone call," and I already knew what it was.
Like when they call you into personnel first thing in the morning and you just know you're being fired.
Yeah. So he was like, "We're done." But you know, we had no idea. I mean, we knew we were on the bubble but every other sign was a go. Ryan had season storyboarded out, and up until that point, it seemed like they were going to have us back. That's why there was a cliffhanger ending.
So I hung up the phone with him and I was in shock. I was by myself, and the first thing I thought was, "Oh great, there goes my regular paycheck." And then I started to really think about stuff and I was like, "Wow, I'm not going to be able to do scenes with Grossman anymore," and that's when I started feeling some of the sadness. And of course I started worrying if I'd ever work again. Melissa was like, "Here's a shot of tequila." [laughs]
A couple of days later, I started thinking, okay, our run is done and I was really blessed to work for so long with so many smart, creative, talented people on such an intelligent show. I mean, while the show was going on, I loved getting up in the morning because I had such a great job -- except for those months where I had to cry in every episode. Most people who work in TV read their weekly scripts and are like, "My life is a joke!" but it wasn't like that working on Popular. We would get our scripts hot off the presses and guffaw our way through the read-through. I was so stoked to come to work.
But I really believe that there is a higher power and everything happens for a reason and this wasn't meant to continue, but I know that everything I need will be provided. It was a great launching pad, a great starting point, but God has something better for us.
Like a show with you and Grossman.
Okay, can we talk about that? That would be pure heaven.
If you were the creator, what would that show be like?
Dick meets The West Wing. We're in Washington, DC and we both work close to the presidency, and it is our flaws and our fuck-ups that create the scandals of the century.
And you supervise a staff of interns.
And they're all boys.
No, they're all these Jewish girls with great hair who keep disappearing. You send them out on errands and they never come back.
Yes! And we'll be like, "Shit! Find another one!" And eventually we'd put tiny digital cameras in their panties and we'd have all this ammunition to blackmail these politicians so we'd be secretly running the country. And the first thing? Gay marriages are legal!
Oh, and can we talk about the emotional depression that has been seeping through our country since that pathetic thing we called an election? I cannot believe that we have another Bush in the White House. That was a black day in history.
You're not alone, there.
I cannot believe we have this redneck, good-old-boy, illiterate doofus as leader of the free world. When we have someone like Gore who is smart and motivated and caring and compassionate? I cannot believe it. I met Tipper several weeks ago.
I love Tipper.
She was so warm! So maternal! I can't believe they put Bush in instead of Gore!
Hopefully, this will be the last time we have to deal with this. This will totally finish off the conservative party. You know how when you have to quit smoking, you smoke a lot so you will feel disgusted with yourself and won't want another cigarette? That's what purpose Bush's presidency is serving right now. Or at least that's what I'm trying to tell myself.
I hope you're right.
Okay, speaking of US presidents, have you read that book of letters from Ronald Reagan to Nancy?
No. Should I?
You don't understand! I feel this overwhelming urge to be this poet from the sixteen-hundreds. The man encompassed a love for that woman that was undeniable. I read that book and it -- that's what love is. That is what it feels like. Ronnie had a beautiful way of expressing himself. It makes me hurt so much for Nancy now. And I mean, how weird is it that I'm sympathizing with Nancy Reagan? It breaks my heart. Can you believe that? I am mooning over these love letters from a Republican!
I don't know. Popular's done. I'm coming out. Could it be more difficult in my life?