MBTV: And you know, you're the only character on the show who is ever shown eating. Besides Carmen, that is.
Leslie Grossman: I know, it's true!
I miss New York bagels. The bagels are terrible out here. When I lived in New York, I would eat two H&H bagels on a daily basis. I would be like, "Why am I fat? I'm eating vegetable cream cheese!" And then I would eat a fucking Hot N Crusty every morning. You know, a big chocolate chip muffin? And remember when they had to do the fat content of all the nutritional labels? I found out that it had 95 grams of fat. And I would eat one every single morning. It was awful. I was such a pig when I lived in New York. It wasn't even funny. I was so fat.
The bagel is genius in New York and they're so terrible out here. You have so many advantages. You have the genius Joe Shanghai. You have the Veselka. You have Kelley and Ping -- all my favorite restaurants.
I love Veselka.
Isn't it the best? I miss the pirogues so bad. That's another reason why I was such a big pig when I lived in New York. I lived across the street from the Second Avenue Deli and I would eat my way across the city. I can't express how fat I was.
So what were you doing in New York?
I was kind of acting and blowing through my savings and not knowing what I wanted to do. It's so gross of me to say but I never had a real job. I wasn't like waiting tables or anything -- I'm not going to play that line of bullshit that a lot of people do. I was just sort of floundering and figuring what I wanted to do and I didn't think I would ever be able to do acting seriously because I wasn't pretty enough.
But you're so pretty!
Oh please. Believe me, you don't even know how disgustingly competitive it all is. And I just don't compete in that arena.
They say you're never known or experienced true insecurity until you sit in a casting director's waiting room.
Oh, it's disgusting. And I grew up in a very down-to-earth place. It's funny, I grew up in the middle of Los Angeles but I had these very religious parents and I had a very normal upbringing. My mother is an architect/urban planner. My father is an attorney. And they always dreamed that I would have a lofty, intellectual career. Acting was something that was never put up as an option for me. There was never any emphasis on the way I looked growing up. There was never any talk about looking a certain way.
Where in Los Angeles was this?
Brentwood.
So do you have any OJ stories?
Actually, Arnelle and Jason went to my high school. Jason left in the eighth grade but Arnelle was about two or three years older than me and oddly enough was in my math class when I was a freshman and she was a senior. And she was really popular and really intimidating and dressed really well. We were not friends.
I remember -- and I probably shouldn't be saying this in an interview -- but I was friends with a kid who used to carpool with them and I remember distinctively driving by their house and him going, "That's where OJ lives. He kicks the shit out of his wife." And this was literally, like, ten years before she was killed.
Where were you when the whole thing went down?
I was in New York. I was eating somewhere in the West Village and I heard about it and I was like, "No fucking way!" But then the genius thing is that I was back in L.A. visiting my parents during the slow speed chase. And my parents literally live on the way to his house and while we were watching it on TV we could hear the choppers over our house. It was so genius. I was so into the whole drama of it. It was brilliant.
And Monica Lewinsky's father's house is very close my parents' house, and I drove by then when all the press was there. It was very exciting.
Any encounters with her?
Well, here's the genius thing: She's actually really good friends with a really good friend of mine's sister. I never met her but I'd always heard about her. I think she's gotten a bad rap. I think Monica's sort of sweet. I mean, I personally would never have an affair with the president because I'd be afraid I'd be sleeping with the fishes. Like the FBI would kill me or something. Wouldn't you be so paranoid about that?
Well, that's the amazing thing about the Clinton administration. If this had been the Kennedys, she'd be dead. Clinton's a very nice man.
That's what I kept thinking. I mean, I can't believe she's still alive today.
And she got a book deal.
Precisely. But I think there's something glamorous about her. I don't know what it is -- her flippy hair or whatever. I can really relate to her. She was a chubby Jewish girl. I went to Weight Watchers camp as a kid. She went to the same camp -- not while I was there. But there is so much of her that I can relate to. I don't think she's the brightest bulb in the universe, but I don't hate her with the venom that people seem to have for her. I sort of pity her. She just didn't get it. If I ever saw her I would freak out -- I'd be so star-struck.
Okay, let me preface this question by saying that you, Leslie Grossman, look perfectly thin and beautiful on TV...
Do you swear? I feel like such a pig when I'm up there!
The camera adds ten pounds, so I can only imagine that if I met you in person, you'd be a stick.
I have an average build. I'm not at all like some emaciated actress.
Anyway, there seem to be a lot of references on the show to Mary Cherry's weight. For instance your mother tells you to lose ten pounds, Nicole refers to you as a size ten, when you kidnap the personal shopper there are these outfits you supposedly can't fit into. But then in Caged, you claim you need Lily's breath mint because you're "the thinnest." What's up with that?
I don't know what that's about, if I can be perfectly honest. It wasn't the easiest thing for me to be called a size ten on national television -- when I happen to be a size four. I have to just understand that the character is somebody who is a little bit chubby but sees herself as being emaciated because she's so delusional. I try to just not take it personally. I mean, this season there are more cracks about my weight -- even Tammy gets it. I've developed a really thick skin. It used to hurt my feelings but now I'm like, whatever. It's a choice the writers make, and they think it's funny, and I go along with that because I'm going to pick and choose my battles, because this is not important enough for me to freak out over. I really don't know. Sometimes I'm like, is someone trying to tell me I'm fat? I care so little now. I used to care so much but now I just don't care.
It's weird, because what's considered "fat" on TV is so rarely what is fat in real life. Sometimes these so-called fat people even look perfectly thin on TV -- even with the camera adding ten pounds to them.
And TV "ugly" is also not real. That's the evil. That's the way it's always been. Those are the rules of the game and either you can play into them or you don't have to. That's why I've always loved Janeane Garofalo -- she's always talking about it. But it's always going to be that way, and you can continue to rage against that machine but it's never going to change. The most you can do is to continue to be yourself -- as lame and as cheesy as that sounds. If I became a totally emaciated, creepy lollipop-head, I'm playing into all of it. If I keep eating, I think that's a huge statement. Just looking normal on television is an enormous political thing. So I think that's what we're all trying to do. And we're really supportive of each other on the show about stuff like that. Nobody is catty about weight. We all eat potato chips and donuts everyday at work. I eat whatever I want -- as along as I don't eat all of it. I'm not going to let that get to me, otherwise I'll become I'll become as awful and as petty and as disgusting as the other people that I hate who do that.
And it's different for me. I mean, if I was a Gwyneth Paltrow, or somebody who was a total leading lady, there would be different pressure on me. I'm a comedic supporting actress and I always will be. So I don't have the pressure to look a certain way. So whatever, if they want to call me fat on the show, they can call me fat on the show. It doesn't change me.
At MBTV, we're always speculating on who's gaining weight or who's got an eating disorder but no one seems to really talk about that with the Popular cast. There might have been some speculation that Brooke is a little too thin...
She is very thin but she's truly...I mean, she's a model. She's six feet tall and she's really really thin and she's always going to be that way. That's the way that she's built. But what I love about the show is that all of the girls are completely distinct from each other. We're all individual looking. Tamara Mello's body is insane. And you know what's amazing? Sara Rue has a gorgeous body and let me tell you: she has no problem in that so many people have so much interest in her romantically. It's not funny. I have never met anyone who has dated so much. She came out to my beach house once and was wearing a bathing suit. You had to wipe the drool off the ground from all the guys that were staring at her. She has a gorgeous, gorgeous body. She has so many boyfriends I can't even tell you.
Anyone famous?
Um...no. And even if there was I wouldn't tell you.
I think you look fabulous on the show.
You better say that. Thank you.
So, speaking of fat girls, what was it like to work with Delta?
Who, by the way, is not fat. Delta is so fabulous, I can't even tell you. Number one -- I have to say this. She really is a comedic genius.
I was so thrilled when they brought her out as your mother.
I'm just going to say this. I believe that Ryan Murphy single-handedly is responsible for Delta's comeback. I mean, obviously it's her own talent that got her where she is, but Ryan is the first person who used her. She was not working. Ryan was the first person who was like, "Delta Burke, she's due for a comeback and I'm going to make that happen." And now look, she's got a new series on NBC, she's in the new Mel Gibson movie. [Ryan] did that on his own.
So when I found out that Delta was my mother, I was so thrilled. When I was a little kid, I watched Designing Women, and I loved Suzanne Sugarbaker. She was so brilliant and so genius. And I was really intimidated to meet her because I was sure she'd be a diva and be a bitch. When she first came into work, she was so glamorous, she was wearing one of those scarves over her head like a 1950s glamour girl in a convertible and big Jackie O sunglasses. She came up to me and she said, "Are you going to play my daughter." And I said "yes" and she gave me the hugest hug and said, "Oh, I'm so scared, I just want everyone to like me!" And I was like, "Are you kidding? We're, like, worshiping you!"
She's so even-keeled. She's just so good at what she does. And she's such a great, fun person to watch. She'll be back. When we won the GLAAD awards, that was her first big splashy comeback in the public eye and she landed on the cover of People. The show's been good to her and she's been good to the show.
Chris [Gorham] and I were talking about this. If he was fourteen and someone said to him, "You know Kevin's mom on The Wonder Years? She's going to play your mom one day," he wouldn't have believed it. If someone told me ten years ago that Suzanne Sugarbaker was going to play my mom on a TV show, I would have been so excited I wouldn't have been able to sleep for ten years. It's been a real joy and that's not bullshit.
Well, I'm not even going to tell you who they've got as my father but let's just say it's genius. You'll be really excited.
Can you give me a hint?
No. It will give too much away. It's too specific. You'll know in two seconds. I want people to be surprised. But just know that it's someone fucking brilliant.
So your father is going to be a character season?
He's going to make an appearance.
What about Erik Estrada?
He's a real character. He gave me an autographed copy of his book, From Harlem to Hollywood. He's on the cover of a Harley with his shirt off.
He's really funny. He's a very nice guy. He drove up in a huge Bentley. Apparently he's really good friends with Prince Albert of Monaco. What I love about him is he won't give up the fact that he was a huge star in 1979 and still thinks of himself that way. And you know what? More power to him! He just couldn't have been nicer to work with and he's got these huge television teeth.
Jesus, do you hear that plane? It's so loud. I feel like I'm in Vietnam.
It's just like Vietnam!
Literally, this is just like Vietnam. This is what it must have been like for our boys -- sitting on the beach doing an interview on a cordless phone.
I want to see some of that edgy shit in your project.
I know!
What's it like on the set? Do you all hang out? Who is friends with who?
This is going to sound fake, but the honest-to-God truth is that we get along so well. I'm not going to give you a dishy answer. It bums me out that I don't get many scenes with Carly [Pope]. She's so even-keeled and down to earth and great. Me and Tamara and Tammy...we all get along so well, I can't even tell you. Last Friday, Tammy and I were working together for fifteen hours and we had a two-hour break over dinner and we went out to dinner together. Everyone came to my wedding. We all talk on the phone. I've met their families. You can't work the amount of hours we all work together and not get along -- unless you hate each other. Chris is so sweet, and I've never worked with anyone who was so easy to deal with as Bryce [Johnson, who plays Josh Ford] is.
What about that rumor that Kevin Spacey is seeing someone on one of the WB shows. Is it Bryce?
No! Bryce is totally straight.
Yeah, but whoever this is, isn't really gay. He's just using Kevin to break into movies.
That's not Bryce.
Did you all get into your characters to such an extent that you might have felt some animosity towards the Browns?
Oh God! Are you kidding me? I'm so anti-Method. Puh-lease! I'll be talking the way I am right now on the set and as soon as the camera rolls, I'm like, "Hi y'all!" I mean, if I was in a movie with Robert DeNiro and had to do a crying scene, maybe that would be a little different, but there's none of that. From the very beginning, me, Tamara, and Sara have been really good friends.
What's the food on the set like?
I love our craft service guy, but inherently, craft service food sucks. I was convinced I got H. Pylori poisoning from the food there -- which is, you know, an ulcer, but that's just because I'm totally neurotic. I was convinced because I had a little stomach pain and I was like, "It's that craft service food!" It's gross but deal-able. And apparently we have the best craft services of any show on television. He's great. When we've been working for fifteen hours and it's one o' clock in the morning, he'll make us grilled cheese sandwiches and tomato soup and that's really nice. But mostly it's like deli meat, fresh fruit and lots and lots of carbohydrates -- every kind of pastry in the whole universe. I have never met a carbohydrate that I didn't like. I'm on the anti-Atkins diet. I'm on the Chronic Illness diet. I'm on the "let's feel as shitty as you can" diet.
What about the clothes?
Oh! We have the most brilliant costume designer named Lou Eyrich, and she's so wonderful and so talented. Let me tell you something: one of the most humiliating things you can go through as an actress is a fitting. When I was in Can't Hardly Wait, I left my fitting room crying. I was made to feel like the biggest, fattest undressable pig. Lu has never once made us feel that way and she's got such a great sense of style herself. And that's how you can tell if someone's good or not. I mean, if you meet a stylist who is wearing sweatpants, you know you are in trouble. She's so glamorous and all of the people who do our wardrobe are so unbelievably talented. All of them have done major movies, and this is their first television show, and they want to do this because the material is so good and it's so fun to dress the cast.
You're going to see a real change in my wardrobe and Nicole's wardrobe this year. You know those Versace ads that are out this year? They're very Jackie Susann or 1971 Boca Raton ladies who lunch? That's how Nicole and I are dressing this season. We're going to have that hair and make-up, and a lot of sea-foam green and gold chains. They also got me a bunch of vintage Pucci stuff. It's very eighties. There's a lot of eyeliner on the inside of the eye. It's taking a very high-glamour turn. To be perfectly honest, the clothes are a lot better this year now that Lu has come on as our costume chief. And there's a lot of mink for me, still. They got some really great vintage furs from the seventies for me. I'm really happy with my clothes this year.
What would PETA say?
The furs are over twenty years old! [laughs] I mean, it's not like we're buying new ones. I can't tell you what happens in the opening scene of the first show, but it's hilarious and it involves a mink. You'll really like it, I'm sure.
Does the costume department make everything, or do they buy stuff?
Sometimes they'll make something -- like if it's a specialty item, like my light-up dress [in the homecoming episode], but mostly they get clothes from Gucci, Prada, and Versace. And we've got more money for the clothing budget this year, so it's going to be even better.
Favorite outfit?
I loved that white full-length fur I wore in Caged, but to be perfectly honest, I like my clothes so much better this year. I really feel like everything has fallen into place and things look the way they should.
What do you, Leslie Grossman, wear?
Personally? When I go out, I'm a bit of a label whore. I just bought a gorgeous Louis Vuitton bag yesterday. And I'm a little bit of a trend hog. I tend to like things to be a bit on the trendy side. I get all my clothes at Fred Siegal. I like people like William B, Costume National and Rebecca Taylor. I'm not a huge Gucci or Prada girl because everybody wears that and it becomes like a uniform. You see it and you go, "Oh, that's Miu Miu from last season."
In my everyday life, I'm really boring. I wear hip-huggers, tank-tops and flip-flops, bucket hats, and my Prada sunglasses everywhere and everyday. I do enjoy shopping. Nothing makes me feel better. I like to dress casual but I still can be glamorous. When you're a high-maintenance blonde like me, you have to care about these things. You have no choice.
Do you get to keep any of the outfits from the show?
No, they need it for continuity. Sometimes we'll reshoot stuff four episodes later. So they really can't let the stuff go until the end of the season, and then it goes to a big warehouse. But I borrow tons of stuff. I had to go to the Teen Choice awards and they got an outfit for me. They're incredibly helpful.
These "oh what a night" ads for the WB?
I'm in one for, like, one second.
Do all the WB kids really hang out like that?
No. I haven't met anyone. Actually, do you know who is really nice? Brendan Fehr from Roswell. He's been a good friend of Carly Pope's way before they ever got these shows. He's a doll. He is so sweet. And he is the only other "WB kid" I know from another show and we're not even friends -- I just know him through Carly.
When we did that "Oh What A Night" thing we only talked to each other. I didn't meet anyone else. We were all there together in the trailer getting our make-up done and no one spoke. Nobody was rude or anything. But, you know, it's just work. Plus, we're the only WB show that shoots on the Disney lot. All the other shows are done all over the place: the Paramount lot, the Warner Brothers lot -- all over the city. I think Buffy shoots all the way over in Santa Monica. The only show that shot near us was "Brutally Normal" but otherwise we don't see anyone. Ever. We work in a black hole. You go in and it's a totally isolated universe.
So you're not always sitting on Barry Watson's lap between takes?
While I'm braiding Katie Holmes's hair? Hardly!
What if you got a development deal and Mary Cherry got her own spin-off?
I'd do it in a second. I would love to do a three-camera sitcom. I would love for Delta to be my mother and would love for Ryan to create it and write it. That would be my dream, but the odds of it happening are very slim.
And for those of us who aren't in-the-know, Popular is a one-camera show, right?
Right. It's more like making a film. A three-camera sitcom is like doing a play, and there are multiple cameras that get everything and they just edit everything together. Most sitcoms are three-camera, and it's so much easier to shoot. It's half the hours. I've always wanted to be on a sitcom. That's always been my dream. That was the stuff that always inspired me. I know it sounds so lame, but I always loved I Love Lucy. I'd love to perform in front of a live audience -- it's a totally different atmosphere. And you can have a life. You work from ten to six when you do a sitcom.
I would think it would be brilliant if the Cherrys lost their money and had to move to Harlem.
And they'd just sit around chain-smoking Pall Malls in a one-room apartment with all these cats. It would be like some Tennessee Williams play.
Exactly! I would love to do that -- just take it to the ridiculous extreme.
I would love to keep doing her, but there is a part of me that gets concerned. It's such a specific character -- like Latka -- and I could be identified with her throughout my entire career and never do anything else. But then I remember that it's not like I can't walk down the street because I'm so famous. [laughs]
And Andy Kaufman was known for other things.
That's true. And he had a movie made about him.