24 S02E25

I interviewed Penny Johnson Jerald again last month, before the Emmy nominations were announced. We spoke over the phone while she was taking a break from running her theater company.

Gustave: What are you doing season?

Penny Johnson Jerald: I challenge you to call Joel Surnow and ask him that same question.

Well, that's the nature of the question -- what are you being told?

[laughs] I don't want to be told too much. I like to be told enough. I want to place myself as an artist, and I don't want to disappoint the fans. It's the word of mouth, I avoid. These people who are tuning in who say, "I don't watch television but" It makes you feel so wonderful inside because you're getting feedback from the average person who owes you absolutely nothing. They don't have to comment. I could step outside of my house, walk into a place, and they're right there. They always ask for an autograph. I always say no but I say, "If you give me your address, I'll give you a picture." Because my autograph means nothing.

What was it like to do the second season as opposed to the first season?

I have to say that last year I didn't understand the huge impact that the character was making. As far as I was concerned, I was just going to work and doing my job. And all of a sudden there were these rave comments about this character and what I was doing with her. I graciously accepted the recognition.

This year I was anxious because there'd been so much hype and I was waiting to come back and reinvent her. Do I focus on proving something or what? So I came to a place where I just figured I'd do the work and see what happens -- like I did last year. And maybe the writers will do their job. They really love her this year, though. She's a bad girl! I'm never thinking of her as a bad girl. But she is a diva. I kid around in the makeup trailer. "Penny is not a diva, but Sherry is."

How do they reserve you when they don't know when they're using you exactly?

You're signed on for certain episodes. You're prepared to work and you don't schedule anything during that time. It's written in four different arcs. When a section was over they'd have an idea of what they'd be doing in the arc, so when I got word that I would be free, word got out and I was offered other jobs. The problem is, you're free but you're not really free. You can always be called into work. 24 is my first priority, so the worst scenario is that you're getting paid and you're not doing anything. [laughs] But I was able to do The Vagina Monologues and play Condoleezza and meet with some people for future projects.

When Sherry says, "The bomb was never meant to go off," in your mind is she telling the truth?

Absolutely. I think that finally someone used Sherry. And that was one of the biggest conflicts for her. It was enough to store venom to hate again. Not only was she used, she was used by someone so very powerful -- the Kingsley character -- and he was so much more powerful than she was that he could take her out. And I think that was alarming and disarming for Sherry because she's always in control and nothing is too much for [her]. So she found herself thinking, "Oh my God, how do I fix this one? I'm not the one controlling it. Someone is using me!" Sherry ended up getting played and that was a reality check for her. It made her lose contact with the reason she was doing this in the first place: the fact that she loved that man and he didn't want her anymore.

At the end of last season when they were bringing you back for the second season, what were they telling you about your character?

They weren't telling me anything.

Big surprise.

[laughs] Yeah, absolutely nothing. I did not find out anything about my character until we had this presentation for the Television Critics Association where I cornered Joel [Surnow] and I said, "Okay, where do we go from here?" And he said, "You don't want to know everything." And I said, "Oh, you're right, I don't. [laughs] But I must know something." And he said, "Well, this is what's going to happen." And I was anxious to know what was going to happen and how she'd come back onto the scene and how she would show herself and get back into everyone's good graces or not. I guess the second season was about getting in good graces no matter what -- redemption. The first season is about "not getting being found out." But this season was a wonderful game of chess. She would try different tactics. She ended up playing a master game with Jack Bauer. Sherry doesn't like to lose. She'll go to no end to prove that.

Day One, you were a masterful public figure -- someone who could assume the ornamental duties of the First Lady and play to the audience. Day Two, you were you a player. You were a Pamela Harriman character -- a backroom gal, so to speak.

Well, the "Day Two Sherry" was a woman scorned. She was right out of the Bible. Jezebel! [laughs] And yet she was still believing and feeling. There was a scene we shot that didn't make the final edit of the last episode. I believe it's going to be on the DVD. Anyway, the scene shows that Sherry gets a lot of satisfaction out of being redeemed. Actually I'm happy they didn't put it in because it defined her a little too much. The beauty of her is her ambiguity -- the fact that you always have to guess where she's coming from. It would have been foolish to make her too clear.

Yeah, and it's a little unclear what happens to her. It took me two viewings to realize that she'd been led away in handcuffs.

[laughs] It was the scene right before that.

And can you tell me about that scene?

You know what? Here's the thing about being on 24: Penny doesn't lie. But Sherry does. I can't lie but I can't tell you the whole truth. [laughs] There are some truths that even now I'm not certain of. We become masters of talking in circles. My daughter told me that yesterday. We were at an event yesterday. People were asking me about season and she said to me, "Ma, you really know how to answer questions!" And I'm trying to think, what is she talking about? And then I think, oh I know what she's talking about. I've learned to master talking in circles and trying to sound quite profound while doing it.

We keep topping and topping and there's so much more to top. Even the final episode was not our very best episode in my eyes. You know, it was wrapping up things and sometimes you do it a bit too quickly. We had twenty-four hours to do thatnine months to do that [laughs]. 24 is fast-moving but it was really moving fast for me: that final episode. There was so much to get in. It should have been a two-hour show, as far as I'm concerned.

But I enjoyed it. Sherry had to do something. Her husband has kicked her out. She was a woman scorned. And the most fearful thing in this world is a woman scorned. We can do anything. We can stop the population of the world. All we have to do is close our legs and not have babies. [laughs] So Sherry had to do something and I was very happy that they did give me something to do. And even still, I challenge them to show what Penny can really do with Sherry. And there's so much more. I don't even believe we've begun to tap that reservoir of things that can come out of her.

What about between you and Kiefer -- without weapons, of course.

When two people are fighting on the street, that's safe. You say, "Hey, c'mon, the only thing that's stopping us is air!" Well, the only thing that was stopping me in that final episode was that gun. [laughs] Other than that, Sherry can hold her own. She's not stupid. I almost wanted her to use that gun in Kiefer's defense at the end.

You never did get to hold a weapon, did you?

No. I thought it would have been interesting to see who I'd shoot. But then, I'm the actor and not the writer.

You started having scenes with Kiefer. And that hadn't happened before.

We had only been in the same room last season.

You also hadn't done any action before.

I know. I got to run and do things. That was exciting.

What was that like?

It was a relief. It's what required of me. I was like, "Great, I get to do what I do in my real life." It's funny because one of the producers' big concerns with all of that action was how high my heels were and if I was going to break an ankle and I thought, oh my gosh, they really don't know Penny! [laughs]. They're confusing Penny with Sherry, who is a diva who might not want to run. Actually I had to tone down my running because I don't think Sherry's as good a runner as Penny. It was exciting to do those things and to get stabbed. She's taken on the role of a man, except you know she's all woman. And it was fun to see her do those things.

So last year I asked you who you were basing your performance on -- the first black First Lady -- and you said, "Hillary and Lady Macbeth." Who were you thinking about this year as the first divorced First Ladywho is also African-American.

This season was just about rejection. [laughs] And actors suffer that a lot, so we become masters of handling that. Sometimes it's not pretty. And in Sherry's case it's never going to be pretty. Pretty is boring. It's gotta be nasty and drawn out. But you know she wanted to be in that White House so bad she could taste it, so anyone who was in that White House was going to be her enemy until -- or unless -- she was there. That was a driving force for her.