West Wing TV Show - "The Next Truthful Moment" - West Wing Photos & Videos, West Wing Reviews & West Wing Recaps | TWoP

[Note to international viewers: this contains minor spoilers about the season finale, "Two Cathedrals."] The show opens with a clip of Aaron Sorkin saying, "What I love is the sound of dialogue, and so usually what I want to do is get two people arguing about something, anything...the time of day." We get a shot of Richard Schiff listening to Sorkin intently; with his chin down, his dark, intense eyes and the ripple of grey in his black hair, he has a more rabbinical mien than Maimonides. It's actually pretty hot, if you go for that sort of thing. He's wearing a suit that Toby would wear, so he seems more like Toby than Richard. Sorkin is wearing a kind of olive-green jacket with a white button-down shirt open at the collar, and a white t-shirt underneath. He's got a snappy, boyish haircut and isn't exactly hard on the eyes, either. He has the sort of smile people describe as "winning." Sorkin continues, saying that obviously the show's setting provides ample opportunities for him to do that. He describes it as "good food" for him. We get a clip of John Spencer saying, "But ultimately, what I got down to is, I'm playing Leo as if John were Chief of Staff, to Martin, as if Martin were President." Well, don't we all wish. He's wearing a dark pinstriped suit. They show brief clips of Leo and Jed interacting. Spencer continues, explaining that once he grasped the technical aspects of whatever Leo was supposed to be talking about, then his job was basically "personalizing it as a human being." Cut to Brad Whitford, in a dark jacket and white button-down shirt, open at the collar. I'll pause here for the obligatory swooning break for all his drooling fans. Dum-de-dum...that should suffice. He says, "With such a technical thing to execute, you have to make sure your blood is flowing underneath it, as an actor...that you're not focused on execution but that you're focused on the moment." He says he finds it a "very challenging and interesting acting experience." Several adorable shots of Josh from the show. Cut to Martin Sheen, wearing a casual shirt with a three-button placket, done up to the top, in a colour that could be charcoal grey (and we'll pause while I swoon), saying, "It's not about going 'out there' [gestures to world at large], it's about going in here [points at his chest]." Shot of Allison Janney smiling hugely and fondly. She's wearing a brown jacket of some soft suede-y fabric over a plaid blouse in kind of a dusty pink over a white t-shirt. Her necklace is not at all a monument to bourgeois taste. She looks even more gorgeous than usual, perhaps because she seems completely relaxed, and isn't in performance mode. Sheen says that what's interesting about the show is that it's about the individuals who work there, and "their heart." Then we have a brief commercial break. When the show returns, Rose tells us all the usual stuff about what season the show is in, that the finale is coming up the following night, and all the Emmys the show won last year. He then introduces Sorkin and all the actors, along with the names of their characters and the characters' positions. Rose asks Sorkin what he thinks "makes" this series, mentioning the suggestion of some people that TWW invests politics with a certain nobility. Sorkin thinks there's some of that -- some wish fulfillment -- but that it's not the idea that makes something successful, but the execution. He states that he thinks the cast is the best that has been on television in a long time (can't argue with that), and talks about how hard everyone associated with the show works to make it so good. He says that they "really swing for the fences." Being sports-impaired, I only have the vaguest idea what that means (just enough to figure it's a sports metaphor), but fortunately Rose asks Sorkin what he means by that. Sorkin points out that they've done forty-four episodes and that they never phone it in just because it's television -- that it's just the opposite: their sweep of the 2000 Emmys makes them feel like, "Now we have to be as good as everybody just said we were." They take it very seriously, and he likens each Wednesday night to a Broadway opening. Rose points out that writing twenty-two episodes a year is a lot of writing; Sorkin agrees that the pace is "ferocious," and adds that they are very wordy scripts. The cast members all smile knowingly, and Rose points to Martin Sheen, who's chuckling quietly about this. Sorkin adds that the words aren't always in English: "They're sometimes in Latin, sometimes in French..." Janney, Whitford, Sheen, Spencer, and Schiff are all still laughing and trading knowing glances and little comments amongst themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of it is too quiet to catch, and there's no closed-captioning. Rose asks whether the fact that the show is all done with language makes it an actor's show. Spencer says that it's a great vehicle for actors, and mentions that sometimes they get to speak pages of dialogue, which doesn't happen much in film or television. In that way, it's like stage work. Schiff says, "Here's the thing about Aaron's writing, which is, it's not just incredibly beautifully metered and poetic and substantive, but it correlates with things so that you can connect with things that are emotional. So very often, even though you have this volume of things to say, the moments reside between the words, which only a great writer can pull off." Rose asks for elaboration on the idea of the moments residing between the words, and Schiff suggests that the moments the character might not want to reveal happen in between the language, and that the language almost covers them. We are shown a clip from "In Excelsis Deo"; it's the scene in which Toby discusses funeral arrangements with the homeless man whose brother died. Whitford then makes his above-quoted comment from the opening about making sure the blood is flowing. Rose asks Sheen whether The West Wing is different from other things he's done. Sheen laughs jovially again; he's in an awfully good, giddy mood. Sheen says that it definitely is, and adds, "I never would have cast myself in this...never." He says he wanted to play John Spencer's part. (Dude, you already did...in The American President.) Sheen claims, "I'm better at it!" He then tells an anecdote about Jack Warner: "When they told Jack Warner that Ronald Reagan was going to run for President, he said, 'No, no, no: Ronald Reagan, Vice-President; James Cagney, President." He then mentions some interviews that he and [producer and director] Tommy Schlamme were doing a few months back, and tells Rose that they were being asked the usual questions about what makes the show work. Schlamme said that it was a family show -- that it was about family. Sheen admits that he's always bugging Sorkin to put him in a parade, let him go out past the rope barriers, have him make a big speech, bring in the limousines...basically, he implies that he gravitates to the pomp and circumstance of the role. But he's told, "No, no, no, it's not about going 'out there,' it's about going in here." He talks about it being about the heart of the individuals in the White House, when Rose interrupts with another question. Sheen says, in a very pleasant, Presidential way, "I wasn't finished yet." He courteously allows Rose to continue, generating another round of laughter. Seeing these six here, and their incredible ease with and respect for each other -- not to mention the way they seem to truly enjoy each other's company -- it's very hard to believe the various rumours that fly around about strife over salary negotiations or whatever. Rose asks Sorkin, "Give me some sense of what you think the value judgment is there in this White House." Sorkin replies, "I'm not sure what you mean...or maybe I am sure what you mean. Even if I'm not, I'll just make it up." He describes the initial perception of the show as being liberal, but that people quickly recognized that the characters were capable of arguing all sides of an issue, and that even if they disagreed with a particular character's position or behaviour, the characters were people who wanted to do right. Rose interrupts to ask whether that's Sorkin's take on the way the White House really is, and whether he feels it's not perceived as such, or whether that's simply the way he wishes it was. Sorkin says right away that he doesn't know how the White House is; Rose counters that he has the assistance of a number of consultants with first-hand experience. Sorkin says that he's nuts about those few people that he does know. He goes on to say, "I think that by and large in American culture, that the President and people who work in government that are leaders, have either been portrayed as Machiavellian or dolts." Rose agrees. Sorkin suggests that he writes it the way he does as a combination of the contacts he's had with political types and his own romantic vision of the way it might be. Rose asks the actors to tell him something they like or find interesting about their characters. Sheen doesn't hesitate at all before answering, "Heart. His heart. That he has heart." He explains that he thinks Jed takes what he's doing very personally, and that it's going to cost him something to get from here to there. He suggests that Jed balks at times and is propelled forward by the others, especially Leo. He suggests that Leo is the "up-front" guy and the "conscience," and then Janney and Whitford kinda make fun of him for saying that, going, "Awwww..." in an exaggerated way. Sheen kinda trails off, muttering to Whitford, "What's your job?" Whitford says, "I clean your golf clubs." Sheen kind of tries to wrap up what he was saying about Leo, but Rose just barely acknowledges it, having moved on to Spencer. Spencer says that he's "intrigued by Leo's desire to serve." He feels like he can propel his character to do great things, mentioning that Leo possesses a devotion that he himself would love to have in life. He adds that he thinks the intriguing thing about TWW is that it's about people; politics is just a backdrop. Rose agrees. Spencer thinks that viewers love who the characters are, and that they don't normally get to see those sides of political people. Rose states that he thinks that's a mistake on the part of the politicians; Spencer agrees: "You only see the public face, and we show them the private face." Rose asks Sorkin what he's trying to do, other than entertain people and achieve record viewership. Sorkin says, "If they tune in at nine o'clock, at ten o'clock, we want them to be happy that they did." He approaches the show with the idea that the people who watch television shows are at least as smart as the people who make television shows, adding, "Nobody out there is dumber than we are." Personally, I wouldn't go quite that far, but whatever. He thinks that people like to make the effort to keep up with what they're watching onscreen and feel excited about it. Whitford interjects to say, "Hollywood is full of really bright people who are writing something they think they can sell. And that's like me telling you a joke that I personally don't think is funny. It's a cynical exercise." He states this with just the right mixture of authority and contempt. He continues, "What you have with Aaron and what you have with David Chase on The Sopranos, is really bright, interesting writers who are clearly trying to amuse themselves." Brad has a little more to say in this vein, but Charlie Rose is ready to interrupt and Sheen, who's seated to Whitford, has a bit of a coughing fit, all of which kind of takes a bit of the steam away from Whitford. Which is too bad, because I would have been interested to hear what more he had to say about it. He obviously has very strong opinions about the quality of television writing and is not afraid to express them. Personally, I'm not too happy that I'm already on page four here and have yet to hear a peep from Janney. There's a bit of everybody trying to talk at once, with Schiff losing out to Sorkin. Sorkin apologizes but continues as Schiff laughs in exactly that way we've seen Toby laugh a couple of times; the laughter strikes me as a blend of indulgence and annoyance. Sorkin says, "If I write what I like and what I think my friends will like and what I think...to an extent, what I think my family will like; in other words, because if it's just writing what I like, then I'm very scared...but if I write something...frankly, these days it's these people [gesturing to cast]...if I write something that I like and I think that Richard would like this, too, and Allison would like this, too, then I just cross my fingers and hope enough other people will like it, too, that I can earn a living doing it." Rose remarks that he assumes the writing must be easier now that the actors have fleshed out the characters so well. Sorkin agrees: "It's much easier knowing that I'm writing for Allison playing C.J. You want to be careful when you're doing that, though, not to think you know what it is that Allison Janney can do, that you've explored her entire range of acting. You constantly want to be..." Rose interrupts: "But are you thinking about Allison Janney or are you thinking about C.J. when you write that character?" Gee, maybe if you'd let the guy finish his damn sentence, he'd have told you. Sorkin starts to reply, but there's a lot of minor interjections and comments from several people at once which more or less derails the line of discussion and Sheen has a little fit of wheezy laughter and finally Allison Janney gets to say something, and decides to rat out her colleague: "Martin has a problem with names." Sheen gives her a fake-o look of wary indignation. Janney continues, "And Martin from the longest time...sometimes he doesn't quite remember my name. So he calls me either C.J. on a good day... or 'The Big Lady.'" Sheen laughs and wipes his eyes and keeps trying to give her a flinty-eyed look but fails. Janney seems to accept this foible with very good humour. Spencer tries to bring them back on topic and asks Sorkin, "When you're writing for Allison, for C.J., you're writing for C.J., but your C.J. is Allison, right?" Sorkin replies, "Yeah, absolutely. The truth is, when you're actually in it, when you're writing it, you tend to kind of let go of such a strict thought process. Something else has taken over and that machinery is in there already..." He adds that there's no question that he's picturing Janney as C.J. Janney interjects, " You gave me that wonderful tooth thing because you thought it'd be fun to see me...." Sorkin makes a reference to various actors' particular "specialty skills" which causes Whitford and Sheen to crack up, Whitford joking that these appear on the "bottom line of the résumé." Sorkin says that Janney is "truly a world-class comedienne," among other things. No argument here. He says that they will go for the joke as often as Sorkin thinks they can (Whitford interjects with the example of the fishing waders) and cites the examples of C.J.'s root canal (or rather, "woot canow"), Josh having to wear the fishing waders, and Bartlet's having accidentally taken his medications incorrectly. They show the clip from "Five Votes Down" where the staff finds out he's taken too many muscle relaxants. Sorkin continues, saying everybody's had to trip over something on the show or fall down once or twice (I think Josh and C.J. win for best falls -- Josh when he wipes out on the way to talk to Stackhouse, and C.J. when she walks blindly into her pool). Sorkin jokes, "It's sort of a requirement." Rose moves along, asking if the way Bartlet handles his multiple sclerosis is the way Sheen would want for his character. Sheen responds, "When I first saw that in the script, I thought it was my initials. I didn't have a clue what was coming down." He says he thinks it's great. Spencer makes some remarks about addressing the real human frailties, physical and emotional, of a public leader, and the passion with which Sorkin wrote the story line. He points out that now they're dealing with the reverberations of the decisions Bartlet made about his illness. Sheen adds that they knew they were going to pay for keeping it secret and that everything would eventually unravel. Rose asks Sorkin whether he knew this would be the final episode, in the way that he knew A Few Good Men would end up in the courtroom. Sorkin says that in writing that play and then the movie, he had the opportunity to write the script many times, whereas he describes writing for serialized television as being like walking in total darkness, unable to see any further ahead than a flashlight's beam, not knowing exactly where you're going. "When I did the MS episode, no, I didn't...as Martin said, obviously we were going to pay for it. We were going to have to talk about this. I knew it, but I didn't know what I was going to do, and really I was doing it simply...this is going to sound ridiculous, but two things happened at once: I wanted to, I thought it would be...because I like to show things about the President we don't get to see, I wanted to show him sick in bed, having to watch afternoon television the way the rest of us do. A man who in his life has never seen a soap opera, or one of those panel shows. At the same time, I had been talking to Stockard Channing about coming on to the show and playing the First Lady, and in the middle of a lunch with Stockard, I don't know what she was saying but I had the idea, 'What if she's a medical doctor? Might be something interesting.' And all of sudden he had MS and she was the one who knew and really the story just sort of caught fire like that. Like I said, I knew eventually, we're going to have to address mostly the deception, but didn't know what I was going to do. Didn't know how...that tomorrow night..." Rose interrupts again; does he get paid more if he interrupts or something? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, let them finish what they're saying! This guy needs to attend the Barbara Walters school of interviewing. There's someone who knows how to keep her cakehole shut and let subjects talk, often to the point of just about hanging themselves. Anyway, Rose asks whether a man who's deceived the public about his health should run for re-election. Sheen replies, like a true politician, "I don't really think it's deception; he's been less than honest about certain..." The cast cracks up, especially Spencer. Spencer has a fantastic, big, warm smile that we rarely get to see him pull out on Leo's behalf. Maybe in season three, something really wonderful and great could happen for Leo. Maybe he could hook up with someone sweet. (Josh's widowed mother? Oh, don't get your knickers in a Gordian knot. I'm just playing with you.) Schiff laughs and Whitford shakes his head. Sheen mentions that the MS hasn't incapacitated Bartlet. Schiff says, "This is why Presidents don't come on and talk casually." Sheen goes on to start to say something about the (at the time) unaired finale, as Schiff and Spencer make muttering sounds of the ixnay-on-the-oilerspay talk. Sheen is like a big irrepressible kid. Schiff continues trying to dissuade Sheen from whatever he's planning to say, but Sheen carries on, saying, "He never dreamed he would win! When he started in the primaries, he was a little voice in a big arena. They were beatin' the hell out of him and he didn't have a prayer! And he just started talking..." Schiff interjects, "It was a pretty major oversight, however, as Toby responded to in that episode." He says it became a deception by oversight. Sorkin says he agrees, adding: "I need to jump in and say, that what we're talking about, you guys haven't seen the final cut of tomorrow night's episode." Rose butts in, saying they've seen the script. Dude, shut up and let your guests talk. You don't know more than they do about their work. Aaron explains that "some things have been lifted out" due to time restrictions, and promises, "I will do it again in a different way at the beginning of season." That should be interesting. Schiff looks surprised and intrigued, as does Whitford, who asks, "Why are you telling us this...on TV?" Sorkin replies, "Because it was the only thing that was going to stop everyone thinking..." He says a little bit more than that but it's impossible to get over the laughter and joking that ensues. Rose says, "At least we think this is in tomorrow's night show," as they go to a clip of Sheen in the National Cathedral, tearing God a new one. I can't believe they showed even the first part of this scene as a preview; it's pretty major and such a spoiler. I'm really glad I didn't watch this show until after "Two Cathedrals" aired. Rose says, "Pretty powerful stuff." Sorkin says that there's more. Schiff makes a joke about (I think) his song being cut. Hee! Unfortunately the sound quality is pretty crappy; I don't know if that's the fault of my tape, my VCR, or the poor underfunded PBS. Rose says, "We like a President that quotes Graham Greene, don't we?" Sure; I'd like him even better if he quoted The Simpsons, but that's really neither here nor there. Sorkin cites some of Bartlet's various qualities and abilities, as Whitford interjects, "One of the best lines you ever wrote was a line where it said, 'When did it become a virtue for a President to be stupid?'" You can tell Brad is probably still bitter about the whole Dubya thing, not that I blame him. Sorkin says, "I think that there is, uh...we have gotten into the habit lately with Presidents and any number of leaders, they're 'plain-spoken' and they're 'just plain folk' and it seems to be other words for 'happy to be stupid.'" Sheen explodes in sputtering laughter and leans forward, as Whitford leans back and crosses his arms. Both of them are killing themselves laughing. Rose asks what, if anything, given all the critical and popular acclaim the show has received, they would change about the show. He more or less addresses this to Schiff, who affably says, "You're looking at me...as if I have a complaint." He says he doesn't know whether he would change anything; he's very happy with his character: "I'd change a lot of the editing. I'd go back and change a lot of that. I'd change how much time we have to unearth and discover certain moments, you know. But given the nature of the beast, I think we do pretty well. And I don't think I'd change a whole lot except take-home pay." Schiff smiles that smile where it's a real smile, broad, eye crinkles, the whole deal, but there's still a real undercurrent to the expression on his face. Whitford's off in gales of laughter again. Janney more or less chimes in her agreement. Rose asks about the "sheer brutality" of the schedule. She mentions that they usually start around 6 AM on a Monday and can be at it until 4 AM on Saturday. The hours are incredibly long and she expresses that sometimes you just wish you had a more regular schedule so you could also have your life outside of work. Schiff says, "If we would make this a sitcom, we'd have much better hours." Yes, but...God forbid. Spencer says, "Hour drama is like nothing else. I mean, the thing that keeps me going sometimes is that somebody who works for me once mentioned to me as I was complaining one night after working a fifteen-hour day, and having to learn speeches for the day...and I can't do Aaron's words unless I know them forward and backward, I can't inhabit them, I can't. And his writing's too good to give less than that to. It really is. And someone mentioned to me, I was complaining, working with a script reader, and they said, 'Just think about...he has to write what we read.' And it kind of put it a little bit in perspective." Spencer adds that The West Wing will be his swan song for hour drama in his career, and that there's no better way to go out. He doesn't think he'd find a better one anyway, and the schedule "does not afford you a life." The conversation turns to the parallels between the demands on the actors and the demands on their real-life counterparts in the White House. Eventually Sheen, over some more unintelligible asides from Rose, gets to make the comment that one of his favourite scenes in the series is when Leo is talking to Jenny about their marital breakdown and admits that his career serving the President is more important than their marriage. Rose asks (kind of stupidly), "But is that good?" Well, obviously it's not good. It's what it is. Spencer says, "I think it's necessary. I think it's necessary maybe in the White House; I know it's necessary to do the quality that we do. It's not just us, it's Tommy Schlamme, it's the way it's directed..." Whitford says, "There's an interesting...and I'm so aware of the downside of the hours...but there is an interesting acting virtue in just...it's as if you're in a cult..." Sheen cracks up at this. Whitford continues, "An acting cult...it's like, 'What's the thing?...I'm here to serve the big story...'" Sheen is killing himself laughing, stamping his feet a bit. Whitford: "But you get to an interesting place as an actor. I realized doing this show...because very quickly, you're not nervous anymore, you're not scared, you're past the preliminary jitters that have occupied such a large percentage of my acting life, and you know these people, and you're exhausted, and you're not at your best, and you're not going to be at your best, and you're going to be on national TV, and there's something sort of horribly liberating about that..." Rose inquires, "Do you therefore come to work each Monday morning with that amount of excitement to see another week..." Whitford: "No, because I'm in the cult!" Everyone laughs heartily again. Sheen says, "The only time we really see each other is at the table reading, with Aaron and Tommy and Johnny [John Wells], where all the players and all the backup players and all the crew..." Rose interrupts to ask how often these readings take place; Sheen replies, "About every two weeks. If we're lucky." Sorkin says, "A few minutes after I'm done with the script." Sheen and Spencer makes jokes about how "hot" the scripts are to the touch, and Schiff adds, "And a few minutes before we start shooting." I think Sorkin's reputation as a last-minute Larry is well and thoroughly established now. Not that I'm anyone to talk. Rose asks Sorkin why he's that way. I'm hoping Sorkin will reply, "I don't know, probably for the same reason you seem to be constitutionally incapable of letting any of us finish a sentence," but I guess he was too well brought up for that. Way to go, Ma and Pa Sorkin. Sheen jovially adds, "Yeah, Aaron, why are you that way?" Sheen and Whitford ask him, as Sorkin looks down and away slightly sheepishly, "What is your problem?" Janney and Schiff are smiling at Sorkin sympathetically. Whitford makes a joke which I think is something along the lines of Charlie Rose doing a special edition on Sorkin's legendary lateness, but it's hard to be sure over all the hilarity. Rose tells Sorkin to give him "something" about the final episode. Sorkin mentions the death of Mrs. Landingham, and that part of the episode takes place at her funeral, but that there are all kinds of other things going on at the same time: unrest and violence in Haiti; Josh is trying to secure funding for the government's suit against Big Tobacco, but most importantly, it's the moment of truth for Bartlet, when he reveals to the American people that he concealed his MS and then must attend a massive press conference where he will be asked whether he will run for re-election and must give his answer. Rose commands an offscreen technician to "roll tape" a couple of times, and the Answer A/Answer B scene with C.J., Josh, Toby and Sam is shown. When we come back to the show, we find out that Whitford has left, as he had another obligation he had to fulfill. (I'll pause while the harem collectively whines, gripes, and mourns. That's enough. Now pull yourselves together and try to soldier on.) Rose, for no real good reason I can think of, overexplains Whitford's having to leave, mentioning that that was the reason for showing the clip, and expresses his hope that Brad will come back. I'm pretty sure it's nothing personal, Charlie, although maybe he got ticked off with the constant interruptions. I'm just saying. Sheen jokes, gesturing to Janney, "When you break again, she'll be gone." Aaron Sorkin makes a point of mentioning the cast members who could not be there: Rob Lowe, Janel Moloney, and Dulé Hill. There's minimal discussion of their prior commitments. Rose asks what Sorkin thinks of criticism that The West Wing is a Democratic show and that it is a kind of homage to President Clinton. Sorkin states that the show was never meant to be the Clinton White House and that the characters were never meant to be the well-known staffers in that administration. "The only thing that C.J. and Dee Dee Myers share in common is that they're both women, so it's sort of insidious to say that C.J. must be Dee Dee Myers. I don't...other than Dee Dee, who I know a little bit from the show, I don't know those other people -- like, I couldn't write about them if I tried. I was writing about a fictional White House and still am. I don't think that television shows, or for that matter, songs or paintings or plays or movies, can be liberal or conservative. I think they can only be good or bad. I think that it's odd that Tom DeLay sometime last year attacked the show for being kind of anti-religious. I think that it's odd that conservatives -- and they do it far less now -- but kind of were troubled about the show. Here's a show with no gratuitous violence; no gratuitous sex; it celebrates our institutions; it's a Valentine to public service; the character of the President of the United States is a devout Catholic; he has kneeled down and prayed in the Oval Office....It seems to me they have come to California any number of times and begged us to put this show on the air. It seems to me what troubles them is that the show is populated with characters who, from time to time, disagree with them politically." Burn! Rose asks what, if anything, the show reflects of Sorkin's central beliefs, other than providing entertaining storytelling. He admits that the most attractive thing about the whole endeavour is getting to write dialogue. He says that he's not a natural storyteller. He says that he loves the sound of dialogue, and makes the statement they opened the show with, about getting two characters arguing about something. Rose asks the cast whether they see it as a genuine ensemble. They all nod and murmur their agreement. Janney kids, "Absolutely. Everybody but Martin." Sheen sputters with laughter again. Rose jokes about her maybe calling him "The Little Guy." I think she jokes that she calls him "Pumpkinhead," but I can't be sure. Sheen's facial expression pretends to be spoiling for a fight. Sheen tells an anecdote about the cast being in another panel discussion and being asked to state very directly and honestly, "'Who do you really like to play with in the other characters?' And without exception, every one of us [points to Janney] went to The Big Lady." That doesn't surprise me in the least. Janney laughs endearingly. Rose asks why. Martin explains, "Because she never, ever, ever gets caught at it. Do you know the phrase?" Sheen relates a story about James Cagney, who, late in his life (having never written anything about acting or given any acting advice), was asked by a good friend to pass on some acting advice to young actors. Cagney replied, "Don't get caught at it." Sheen imitates Cagney slightly for this quotation. Sheen reiterates, "Don't let it show. And that's what this lady does. She's incapable [of letting it show]. And she will say something totally unrelated and we're caught, we're caught. We're sucked in. We don't have a clue that she's not doing the show. Whatever comes out of this woman is so honest and so beautiful and [art?] that we're just swept away." I'm thinking Janney must be just about ready to burst, sitting here listening to Martin Sheen sing her praises to the high heavens. Not that she doesn't deserve that, and more. But it must be kind of a heady experience. She laughs in a slightly embarrassed way. Rose asks whether she's heard all that before. Schiff cracks, "That's all very impressive...but what's her name?" Allison cracks up. Martin says that he doesn't want to embarrass her in front of the whole world. Rose asks, "How many years do you want to do this?" No one rushes to answer. Schiff and Spencer chuckle. Janney says that she's having a great time and that she loves having a job -- that "for an actor to have a regular, steady job is the most glorious thing." She adds that Sorkin's scripts are of a quality she rarely sees in any movies she gets offered. Rose wonders whether playing these characters has heightened the actors' interest in politics, although they have established that the show is about family and other themes that could conceivably be played out against any backdrop. Janney says that it has for her, since she was not politically inclined at all before her involvement with the show. Schiff adds that he finds it impressive to speak to their real-life counterparts. He finds their way of thinking very impressive, mentioning that their thinking isn't just limited to their specialty. Rose says, "Great opportunity," looking at Spencer. Janney murmurs, "Yes." Spencer says very sincerely that it's the best writing he's ever had in his life: "That's the raw material for acting. You start with the words. So as long as Aaron has something to say about Leo, I'll say it. That's the thing that makes it worthwhile, the amount of work we do..." Rose says to Sorkin, "You chose each of these actors." He wants to know at what point they came into mind for him. Sorkin says that he did choose them, and mentions how fierce the competition was, that the best actors in Hollywood were trying for these roles. Rose suggests that there was a buzz about the show, and Sorkin admits that there was. He mentions that he had known Brad Whitford for a long time, which is covered in theEsquireinterview. Sorkin says he told the casting directors that, for Leo's role, they needed a "someone like John Spencer." The casting directors said, "Well, what about John Spencer?" Spencer cracks a big smile at this. Sorkin says that Schiff had to beat out ninety-three other actors for the part (and I can't tell whether Sorkin's exaggerating or giving us the exact number) and adds, "Thank God he did." Of Janney, he says, "If there's an opportunity to have Allison Janney in your thing, you do it." He remarks that casting the President was sort of "an interesting journey." Sheen didn't have to read for the role because of something slightly unintelligible, and then Sorkin mentions that you can just look at Badlands or Apocalypse Now and figure it out. Sheen says that John Wells called him collect on a film set in Charleston, and that Sheen was about to wrap up that shooting and go on to Ireland for a little vacation. They asked him just to commit to a couple of days when he came back. He agreed and told them to send the script, and also told them that if Sorkin was involved, he was really inclined to be part of the project, having worked with him on The American President. He didn't realize that he had worked with John Wells, before, too; he didn't realize it was the same John Wells. Poor guy can't remember names. Sheen says, "When I read it, I got on a double hookup...whaddaya call that..." He struggles for the correct terminology -- he's so like Jed -- and continues, conflating reality and TV in much the way nearly all TWW fans are wont to do at times, "Mrs. Landingham keeps trying to teach me how to work one of those..." Someone supplies the correct phrase -- conference call -- and Sheen carries on: "And we talked and I said, 'Yeah, I'm in.'" Rose wonders whether he knew how big the role was going to be at that time. Sorkin says that they didn't, really; they were so focused on the pilot. And in the pilot, Bartlet's only in the last few minutes of the show. Sorkin thinks that Sheen's original deal was for four out of thirteen episodes, and that he would only appear from time to time. As we know, Sheen was so well-liked and well-received in the role that it quickly expanded. He was told that he could go out and do anything else he wanted except play another President. Sheen says that he was asked by some reporters from Ireland and England whether he would have played the role of Jed if Sheen were a Republican, and admits that he'd never given that a thought until he was asked. I suspect that Martin Sheen doesn't waste too many moments of his life thinking about what he would do or not do if he was a Republican. He adds that he doesn't think they would have called him if he were a Republican. He likes to think he could have done it. I like to think so too, but I really don't like to think of him as a Republican. Rose refers to Sheen's long-standing interest in politics; Sheen corrects him slightly to say that his interest has always had more to do with social justice issues than politics. He talks about growing up in a working-class, immigrant family with ten children. He starting working as a golf caddy at the age of nine and quickly became a professional caddy. With characteristic good humour, he says, "And if this falls in the toilet, I can go back to caddying." He says, "I came up in a working-class family. My mother was Irish and my Dad was Spanish and we all had to work and my mother died when I was a kid..." He breaks off laughing, saying, "Boy, this gets sadder and sadder!" Getting back to explaining his passion for social justice, he says, "You knew where I would land, no matter what. And so, when this guy [Bartlet] came along, I just grabbed him..." Rose: "Because he had a heart that you could identify with." Sheen agrees, "That's the thing I love about him the most. He had a heart, and it cost him so much. You know? He takes it real personal. And it costs him. Without spilling tomorrow night's episode, if it is tomorrow night..." Sorkin looks slightly nervous, wondering what Sheen will say. Sheen barrels along, "About Mrs. Landingham, it wasn't mentioned...but you're going to see some flashbacks about how they came together, about how she came..." Sorkin looks at the other cast members, like, "Here he goes..." Spencer smiles indulgently; Janney laughs nervously. Sorkin mostly succeeds in hiding his chagrin and Martin says, "Is that okay? Is that cool?" Sorkin mildly says, "It is now." I can't tell if he wants to wring Sheen's neck or if he's only minimally irritated. Sheen continues, "She became a part, a really central figure of his life at a critical point with [him] and his father and it's really extraordinary stuff." Charlie Rose starts to say, "If that doesn't make you want to tune in..." but Sheen hasn't finished spilling enough beans yet: "Can I tell them who's playing my father?" Rose says, "Please!" Sheen says, "Lawrence O'Donnell!" Sorkin lightly punches one fist into his other palm a couple of times; he's kind of trying to telegraph his annoyance and the other cast members are starting to hoot at it. Rose and Sheen are blathering about O'Donnell, oblivious to Sorkin's "knock it off with the finale spoilers already" signals. Sorkin interjects decisively, "This is a more picturesque episode than we've done in a while." He mentions the shoot in National Cathedral, lots of exteriors in Washington, and scenes on the campus of St. Andrew's in Delaware. He mentions that Tommy Schlamme directed this episode and that it's very visually arresting. He wasn't kidding, as we now know. Rose wonders, having won all these awards, what they're shooting for now: "What keeps you driving?" Schiff replies, "The truthful moment." Rose asks what he means by that. Schiff explains, "You wait for the idea that comes into Aaron's head, and we try to execute it to the best of our abilities, with as much integrity as we can muster given our time restraints. And it's just literally singles, you just keep hitting singles, and up, to use my third baseball analogy. And you just keep it going. You can't have grand...the words to me, certainly, are secondary, and meaningless. They're meaningless to the extent that unless you feel good when you go home at night, about doing everything you can to capture the moment in its most truthful and its most enlivened state, then the rest is somebody else's opinion, and we have to satisfy our own needs first, if you will, you know." Rose then takes the whole tone of the interview down a notch by asking about Sorkin's arrest in April for drug possession. He does it reasonably nicely, but I still find it unnecessary. Rose says that he and Sorkin will have to talk about it at another time on a program devoted to those types of issues, but uses the cop-out of asking about it anyway, claiming "everyone would expect him to." Why? I don't expect him to. Moreover, I don't expect Sorkin to say anything other than the sort of statement he's already made in a couple of other public situations, so why ask at all? And indeed, Sorkin replies, "I did a stupid thing. I'm embarrassed. Obviously I'm going to do whatever the law tells me to." He breaks off kind of nervously. Rose jumps in with, "That's about as much as you can say, other than, those people who were distressed by that at the same time..." Sorkin says, "Those people who were distressed by it...first of all, I appreciate their distress. One shouldn't...needn't worry at all about the show. For sure. And one needn't worry at all about me." He looks ever so slightly relieved when Rose thanks them all for attending and closes the show. I think it may be time for Rose to attend his Interrupters Anonymous meeting, anyway.