A few months ago, someone with the handle "Judd Apatow" posted on theUndeclaredforums, starting a thread called "A Message from the Producer." Could it be...that Judd Apatow? Creator of Undeclared, and Executive Producer of Freaks and Geeks? On a lark, I went to the official Undeclared site and followed a link that promised it would deliver email to Apatow. I wrote how much we at MBTV loved the show and said that, if it had been him posting -- or even if it hadn't -- that we'd love to interview him for the site. About a week later, I got a response that was short but gracious; Apatow simply said, "I love your site," and gave me his office number. Once I'd stopped plotzing, I forwarded the email to Heathen and told her I'd volunteered her for an interview. Yeah, that's the kind of boss I am. I wrote Apatow back saying how excited we were to have him talk to Heathen, and adding, "If Seth Rogen ever thought he might like to do an interview for the site, you can let him know I'm his girl -- I'm even Canadian." Again, that's all it took; Apatow told me to hook it up through his office. And I did. I basically cherry-picked the interview from Heathen who, since it's her show, really should have had first dibs. But Ken was my favourite character on Freaks and Geeks, and Ron is my favourite character on Undeclared, and dammit, I just pulled rank for no good reason. (She's been very gracious about that, actually. Thanks, Heathen!) ["Aw, you're welcome! [She frantically yanks pins from the voodoo doll and tosses it in the trash.] I get Judd, so it's a good deal." -- Heathen] There were a few bumps in the road to the interview, mostly due to the holiday season, and then last Friday, Seth Rogen phoned me. I told him straight up that I'd never interviewed anyone before and that I would try my best not to sound incompetent. He rolled with it. Here's what went down. Wing Chun: I heard that filming has already ended. How was it? SR: The end was....Everyone on the crew thinks the show is cancelled. Which -- it isn't true. But it's almost as bad as it actually being cancelled, the fact that everyone thinks it's cancelled. I don't know why everyone thinks that, really. I guess it's just kind of an easy thing to think. But yeah, so, in that way it kind of sucked, because everyone assumed it was over. But it was nice at the same time, sort of. It was fun -- we had a big party on the set.
WC: Now that they've made the announcement that The X-Files is going to be cancelled, what do you think that will mean for you, if anything? SR: Oh, I hadn't heard that at all! WC: They just announced it yesterday; that was the first I'd heard of it. SR: Wow. WC: It's lasting the rest of the season, but it won't be back year. SR: I don't know! It's very interesting. FOX needs shows that are doing well -- they need shows that people like. It seems like a lot of people watch the show. It's really weird. A lot of people really seem to like it, so it's weird that...I mean, they're clearing off other shows people don't like; I don't know why they would take off one people do like. WC: It seems like now this is two shows in a row that you've been on that were pretty much universally beloved by everyone who ever saw them, and then they can't get the support of the networks to support them. SR: Exactly! WC: So what do you think is wrong with the networks, that they can't keep good shows on the air? SR: I feel like they're just very poorly run! WC: All right. I would agree with that! SR: Yeah, it's nothing new. Everyone's just kind of trying to save their job, and there's no artistic people there, and it's kind of an artistically driven thing -- or at least it should be -- so it's just sort of directly conflicting motivations. Someone wants to save their ass, the other people want to entertain people, so.... WC: I don't understand the rationale of FOX. I mean, they're putting shows on hiatus that are presumably in new episodes, and then they show 24 twice a week? Like, two days apart? SR: It's insane. It's like...oh, God, there's so much I want to say! It's like their jobs aren't even, like, jobs, except the president, really. I mean, the vice-president -- his job is trying to make the president happy. I mean, I could meet the president and then a week later figure out what my job as the vice-president should be, because I would know what the president didn't like! People are just in a mad scramble, it seems, to not get fired, and they're just constantly making decisions that are ridiculous, because at the time that seems to be the most likely thing that will not get them fired. Like, "If I pull four Undeclareds and save the network $6 million, then that might not get me fired!" It's that kind of thing.
WC: So has the experience soured you on being on a TV show? SR: Um...definitely. WC: Really? That's unfortunate. SR: Yeah. Well, Freaks and Geeks soured me from being on a TV show. I kind of decided that I wouldn't be on another TV show. But then Judd was doing [Undeclared]. I, again, probably wouldn't be on another one if Judd wasn't doing it. Because very few TV shows are actually good, and Judd gives us all the control that we want, and it's your fault if it's not good, no one else's. So it's a level of control and confidence that you have in everyone around you that seems impossible -- and the amount of crap that you go through to keep a TV show on the air is not worth it for a bad show. WC: Yeah. For those of us who are viewers, watching what happened to the various Freaks and Geeks cast members after that got cancelled has been interesting. For example, James Franco did the James Dean movie, which is great. And then Busy Philipps, God bless her, is on Dawson's Creek. Which, you know -- more power to her, but it's a shitty show. SR: Yeah, exactly. She's been on Undeclared -- she talks about it. As actors, it's hard to find constant work. That's the good thing about television to a lot of actors. I mean, right now it's easy for me to say I don't want to do another TV show, because I finished one a week ago. A TV show is constant work, which is the great thing about it. Trying to constantly get yourself into movies is extremely stressful and sometimes just impossible. And Busy, she has fun on Dawson's Creek. They pay her well. WC: Oh, I'm sure! I'm not running her down! People have to eat. I mean, if someone from Dawson's Creek called me and asked me to be on it, I would. I have no integrity. SR: Exactly. It kind of depends on what you're ready for, or what you want to do. I mean...yeah. It's a lot of money. WC: Other than being soured on a TV show, are there other shows that you think you would like to be on, that are on now? SR: Funny, I was just thinking the other day -- because I write, you know, so I was thinking of shows that I could possibly get freelance writing work on, because they have to hire freelance writers to write episodes -- yeah, and I don't know! Literally, I could not think of one other show on television that I would want to devote my time to. WC: None at all? There's nothing that you watch on a regular basis?
SR: I do not watch anything on a regular basis. I watch reality TV -- you know the dating shows? Elimidate, and Shipmates, and Blind Date. I can't get enough of those. And then I decided that the shows that I did like, I wouldn't be able to write for, like The Simpsons. WC: You don't think so? SR: That's tough. Those guys have been doing it for ages. And it's all dynamics -- they're friends, and stuff. And God, I don't know if I could write a Simpsons. That's funny stuff. WC: Are there any that you'd like to guest-star in? SR: Um...have you seen that show Curb Your Enthusiasm? On HBO? WC: Yes. I've only seen it a few times but I understand it's good. SR: I love that show -- it's my favourite show. It's great. WC: They show it on the movie channel here, because I'm in Toronto, so we don't get HBO. SR: You're in Toronto? WC: Yeah. SR: Really? WC: Yeah! SR: That's amazing! I didn't know you guys were in Toronto. WC: We're not all here. There's me, and my husband Glark here, and our other partner Sars is in New York. SR: I'm from Vancouver! WC: I know! So we don't get HBO, but we get a lot of the HBO shows. SR: At least you get the HBO shows now. I don't think they had anything when I was there. WC: Well, they've come around. There are a billion cable channels now, so we get more of the American shows. Like, there's a comedy channel that picks up a lot of the stuff from Comedy Central in the States. So you live in L.A. full-time now? SR: Pretty much, yeah. I mean, I leave, but have more stuff here than I do there. WC: I read that when you got the job on Freaks and Geeks, your parents moved to California with you. Are they still there? SR: They kind of go back and forth. There's a place here, and there, for them. WC: And do you get back to Vancouver a lot? SR: I do; I was just there over the winter. But the thing is, all my friends now go to school in Montreal -- they all go to McGill -- so I have no friends in Vancouver anymore. So I go to Montreal now, when I have time. WC: And that's where Jay Baruchel lives, too, right? Or where he's from? SR: Yeah. But we've never been there at the same time. It's really weird. WC: Living in L.A., what do you miss about living in Canada? If anything.
SR: I miss my friends a lot of the time. And the cold weather. I love cold weather. WC: I missed it, too, when I lived in Los Angeles. SR: Yeah, God. It's just way too hot here. And ketchup[-flavoured] potato chips? They don't have those here. WC: No, they don't, that's true! They hardly have any flavoured potato chips, except nachos. SR: Best flavour, Ketchup. Like, by far. I don't know what the hell they're thinking. WC: I agree. What do you like better about living in L.A. compared to living in Canada -- or in Vancouver, specifically? SR: The enormous array of fast-food restaurants. WC: Yes? Like? SR: Jack in the Box and Fatburger? None of that in Canada. Taco Bell? That's pretty hard to find. WC: I read that your background is in standup comedy, so you're a writer/actor/comic. Which of them do you like to do the best? Which is the most fun? SR: It's hard. Acting is a lot of fun. The writing is...I don't want to say it's easier than the acting, but it's less stressful in a weird way. WC: Well, it's more solitary, anyway. SR: Exactly. The writing and acting I like a lot. It's hard to put one over the other. Standup comedy I don't like at all anymore. I'm glad I did it, though. It's all valid. WC: As a writer...are you the kind of writer that just gets to it, or are you a procrastinator? SR: I'm so good at procrastinating. At the same time, I can do it pretty fast. I'll wander around for hours and then have the most productive twenty-five minutes that anyone could ever hope for. And then I wander around for more hours. I pace a lot. I just walk around pacing in my office all day. WC: You have an office at the studio? SR: Yeah. WC: That's cool. SR: Yeah, it is pretty cool. WC: Do you have a lackey who will bring you lattes and stuff? SR: No. WC: Oh. SR: Well, there are office assistants, actually -- yeah. We kind of do have lackeys, I guess. WC: Does that help in the writing process? SR: I don't know if it helps, but it's nice. WC: What was it like to film the first episode that you wrote? SR: It was incredible! I couldn't believe it. It was like a dream come true. It was insane. By the time we shot it, it was a little while after I'd written it, so I'd kind of gotten used to it, a little more, I guess. But it was amazing! It turned out good, thank God, and the director, Greg [Mottola], did a bunch of other ones, and he's a really cool guy, and it was, overall, a great experience.
WC: So it's not like you were watching it and thinking, "That's not how I thought the line reading would go when I wrote it"? SR: No! It got better. It always gets better. When you write a line and you think it's pretty funny, and then someone else does something that makes it really funny, it's great. WC: How many episodes did you write, of the seventeen? SR: I wrote one by myself, and then I co-wrote four others. WC: Cool. And does it change your perspective as an actor on the show to know what goes into writing it? SR: Yeah! Well, sometimes. It definitely changes my acting a lot just because I know I can change any one of my lines. A lot of times, acting is, like, making up for bad writing, like getting an awkwardly written line and having to come up with a natural-looking and -sounding way of saying something that no one would ever say in real life. So that is all avoided, which is an enormous step, because all the actors can tell me they don't like the line, or the other writers can tell me. It's a very open thing. WC: It's fairly collaborative. SR: They listen to everyone. No one's opinion is discredited. WC: Definitely in the episodes that Jason Segel guest-starred in, it seems like there was a lot of ad-libbing. SR: Yeah, they let him go nuts. It all depends on the director and the mood they're in. They let us improv a ton. Any time we think of something funny, they'll let us do it. WC: You recently starred in your first movie, Donnie Darko. SR: Yeah. I wouldn't say I "starred" in it! WC: I won't pretend that I've seen it, because I watched out for it, but it never opened in Toronto. SR: Actually, it didn't come out in Canada at all. WC: What was it like making a movie, versus being on TV? SR: It was cool. It was neat -- I saw it in the theatre and everything. It was a little independent movie, kind of, but it was still...it's so fun working on something different. That's the thing about a TV show: I hate to say you get bored, but something new is always exciting. It was a whole new group of people, and it was a lot of fun. They were all really nice. WC: Did you know any of the people on the movie? SR: I actually did! It was really weird! The main guy, Jake Gyllenhaal, went to high school with Jason Segel. And then there's another guy named Alex Greenwald, who's in this band called Phantom Planet with Jason Schwartzman. I'm friends with Jason Schwartzman, so I knew Alex, sort of. It was really weird. There were a couple of people that I sort of knew in the movie.
WC: Being an actor in L.A., is it sort of small-town-ish? Like you know friends of friends, or you have contact with the same kind of people all the time? SR: Yeah, definitely. There's little groups of people. It's like high school, basically. There's, like, the popular actor kids, and then there's us, and we're like the less popular kids. WC: Who are the popular actor kids? SR: I don't know. There's all the American Pie group of people. And then they all have friends -- you've gotta know who they're all friends with, like Leonardo DiCaprio and those guys. And then there's, like, Shane West and his crew. WC: He's everywhere all of a sudden. SR: Yeah, that guy's ridiculous. WC: Even there, there's one degree of separation between you and him because James Franco was in that crappy movie that he was in [Whatever It Takes, also starring Marla Sokoloff, co-star of The Practice]. SR: Right. WC: And there's two degrees of separation between me and you, because my friend Benzoate was a rights clearance guy on that movie. SR: Really? Wow, that's so weird. WC: And he's Canadian too! What movies have you enjoyed lately, and do you see them differently having been in one? SR: Well, I don't see them differently having been in them. You definitely see them differently being an actor -- just like if you're a carpenter and you see a horribly built house, it gets you upset at the guy who made it. It's kind of the same thing, I guess. It's kind of a personal attachment to it, and a lot of people don't understand why we would put that much energy into disliking something, but it makes sense for us. I liked Lord of the Rings a lot. The Royal Tenenbaums was incredible. Black Hawk Down was pretty good. I'm really looking forward to Brotherhood of the Wolf. WC: Do you see a lot of comedies? SR: I kind of don't like comedies, because I think most of them aren't funny. I'd rather watch an action movie, because they're not trying to be funny. WC: Plus seeing things blowing up is cool. SR: Exactly. WC: Were you aware of the site before we called you? SR: Definitely! We check it out! WC: Really? Because we covered Freaks and Geeks in the first season, too.
SR: I know! You've always been big supporters, Mighty Big TV. WC: Do you follow the coverage of yourself on the 'net at all? Do you ever go on bulletin boards and post secretly? SR: Very rarely. I'm not good at the internet. That whole world of navigation, I have not been able to accustom myself to. And I have a slow computer at home. But once in a while, if I have nothing to do in the office, I'll go see how many girls think I'm cute or something ridiculous like that. WC: So you do kind of have an idea of fan coverage on the web. SR: Yeah, it's ridiculous! WC: Do you get fan mail that comes directly to you? SR: Very rarely, but every once in a while. I get the dudes -- I always get guys who think I'm cool. WC: Do you get recognized on the street? SR: Not really. Sometimes. It's not weird if it happens, but at the same time, I could definitely go weeks without it ever happening. At Disneyland, though -- God, it was crazy. WC: Huh. And are people cool when you meet them, or are they creepy? SR: Oh, no! We're on a show we like, and that people seem to like, so people just really seem to like us. WC: So people aren't throwing garbage at you. SR: Exactly. WC: That's good. SR: It's not like being on some horrible UPN show where it would be more like, "Aren't you that guy?" "Yeah." "Oh. Well, just wanted to make sure. Sucks to be you." WC: Do people ask you for autographs and stuff? SR: Yeah, they take a picture with us. I can't imagine why. I don't even want pictures with me in them, but they seem to like them. Yeah, it's always nice. The fact that I occupy any amount of space in some stranger's brain is very weird to me. WC: But is it cool-weird or scary-weird? SR: Weird. I'm just a very uncomfortable person in general. It's just one more element -- it's a discomfort monkey wrench thrown into my precariously moving machine of a psyche. But it's fun. It's nice. The fact that people like the show is all that matters. WC: We've been occasionally getting emails from Judd through the person who runs the old Freaks and Geeks mailing list. SR: Maureen [Jennings]. WC: Right -- saying that we should send emails in support of the show. Do you think that'll help? Do you know if people are doing that? SR: I hear some people are. I think my mom probably is.
WC: I know definitely people on our forums are, and I did. SR: Oh, that's nice! It could help! I don't know. The way the networks are run is so ridiculous that literally the viewers writing letters telling them that "we do watch the show and like it" isn't enough for them. WC: Stupid. SR: It's really stupid! Another stupid thing that we've all realized that I'm sure they haven't thought of is that colleges don't have rating boxes. And it's huge at colleges -- that's probably who watch us the most, but there zero people there are accounted for. WC: I can't understand why they would put it in that time slot, too, because it's on against Gilmore Girls and Buffy, which are both shows that probably have a really similar demographic. SR: And they wonder why we get no girl ratings. Every teenage guy in the world watches Undeclared, and not one girl, I don't think. Yeah, that's exactly why -- two of the girliest shows on television are on opposite us. WC: Which are both good! They're good shows! SR: Yeah, exactly! WC: But you shouldn't have to have three TVs in order to watch all the shows that you like. SR: Exactly. That's why I don't watch them. WC: That's why when I heard that X-Files was going off the air, I thought maybe what they'll try to do instead is have another hour of comedy instead of some other shitty drama. ["I realize that I didn't come up with this idea and that it's been suggested by many of you on the forums, as well as Heathen herself, but what can I say? I wanted to feel like a big man and pass it off as my own brilliant brainstorm. I'm sorry." -- Wing Chun] ["And the voodoo doll will remain in retirement." -- Heathen] SR: Oh wow, that would be genius! WC: And if they put it on after Malcolm in the Middle, or somewhere in that block, it would work really well. SR: Yeah, exactly! WC: See, I should be running the network! SR: You could literally do it just as well as they can. WC: And then it would be counterprogramming stuff like Alias and [Law & Order:] Criminal Intent, which are very different from the FOX comedies, versus X-Files, which is almost exactly like Alias and/or Criminal Intent.
SR: Yep. Yes. WC: See? SR: You've convinced me. WC: I just solved the problem. SR: You just saved my job. WC: Well, go call someone and tell them! SR: Okay. WC: I think that's about all the questions I have. Is there anything the fans should know about you before we finish? SR: Uh, heh heh, no. The less they know, the better. WC: All right. SR: But that was a good interview! Better than literally 99% of the ones I've ever done. WC: Aw, thanks. Well, I do actually watch the show, so it's not like going on a junket where it's like, "Are you like your character? What are your hobbies? Do you like to hacky sack?" SR: Heh heh. WC: The final thing I should say is that my sister is exactly ten days younger than you. SR: Oh, really? WC: Yes -- she's nineteen, her birthday's the 25th of April [1982; Rogen's is April 15, 1982]. SR: Wow, what are the odds? WC: And uh, so, she wants to know if you're single? ["I'll just break in here to say that while my sister does think Rogen is cute, she didn't ask me to ask whether he was single. I wanted to know if he was single because they would make such a cute couple. I apologize publicly to Toque for misrepresenting her. Having said that, they would make a really cute couple." -- Wing Chun] SR: I am. WC: Cool.