When we left our heroine, Rob and Brennan had just told her that they actually spent some QT with Frank and Margarita. Now, back to the interview, where the loathing of lids begins apace…
Miss Alli: Hmmm. Okay, wait...I've lost my place in my notes.
Rob: That's not good.
Miss Alli: No, that's okay. We'll just go to our "fashion" section.
Rob: Ohhhh, boy.
Miss Alli: All right. What. Is. With. The. Hats?
Rob: The hats are awesome.
Miss Alli: The hats are... [groan of pain]
Rob: I don't understand this entire debate. Those are our Tilly hats, and they keep us safe and dry and warm and we love them.
Miss Alli: Those are your WHAT hats?
Brennan: The brand, they're Tilly. T-I-L-L-Y is the brand. [Note: I think it's actually "Tilley." Look here for a peek. You'll notice that once you get past the intro, the first page says, "Prepare your family for the unimaginable." No kidding. These hats float and come with a four-page owner's manual.] You know, what happened with those, we went shopping beforehand for all the stuff we needed, and we needed an all-weather hat. We needed a hat that was, when we're in the desert or someplace like that, it'll keep the sun off our necks, and off our faces, a brim that goes all around; we needed a hat that when we were someplace where it was raining, was waterproof and was going to keep the rain off our heads, and we needed a hat that was going to fold up really easily and fit in our backpack. And those things crumple up into nothingness, and then they come right back, too. And that's what the guy at the store recommended to us for kind of the all-purpose hat.
Miss Alli: And little did you know...
Rob: And little did we know what would become of that choice.
Brennan: I think I told you before, I had every intention, because I love the Indiana Jones movies, I had an Indiana Jones hat with me. But he got so crumpled in my backpack that I threw him away in Paris.
Miss Alli: A tragic, tragic decision.
Brennan: It was a tragic decision.
Rob: But I truly don't understand the debate, because every hat we ever wore, every piece of headgear was just perfect.
Miss Alli: Mm-hmm. [Rob laughs.] Well, my personal favorite -- I did enjoy -- in New York, I think it was at dinner on Friday night, I was sitting talking to you and Sars, and she said, "I don't understand what's with you and the hats." And I said, "Yeah, me neither, what IS with you and the hats?" And she goes [to me], "No, no -- what's with YOU and the hats?" [much laughing]
Brennan: And it was just, it was a good time.
Miss Alli: So that was a good bonding moment.
Brennan: Good bonding moment. But at the same time, India was really hard. You know, because it's just culture shock. It's completely different than America. We always say that the scariest part of the trip was driving on the roads in India, because there's just -- it's just so crowded. It really is unbelievable, and even as much as they showed it on TV, it's still -- you just can't show it. You can't show that you've got people, bicycles, camels, elephants, cows, rickshaws, trucks, you know, cars, all kinds of stuff all over the roads, and you're trying to navigate through these, and at the same time, you want to go as fast as possible, you're always yelling at your cab driver to go faster, because you're trying to beat the other teams. And so you add that stress to the fact that, especially in the ride down to Agra at the Taj Mahal, you think you're going to be eliminated. You put those two things together, and I just remember thinking to myself, I just want to get out of here.
Miss Alli: So does it occur to you now, when you see yourselves on TV, that you spent a lot of time talking about being eliminated, for guys who won?
Brennan: [over a chuckle from Rob] I think that was another thing that they probably showed more for us, because it wasn't going to happen. I'm sure other teams said the same thing, but they just showed it for us, to make it almost -- so that people would be nervous, "maybe they're going to be eliminated," and then we never were.
Rob: They really did overplay that with us.
Brennan: There were a couple times -- there were three times when we thought there was a possibility that we might be eliminated.
Rob: A good possibility.
Brennan: The time that was the most was in Episode 7, when we were driving down to Agra. We really did think we were eliminated at that point. The other time was after our walkie-talkie incident. [In the fifth episode, charged with doing a task involving a walkie-talkie, Esquire got hosed by the fact that the walkie-talkie batteries had gone dead by the time they got there.]
Rob: [laughing] Walkie-talkie "incident."
Brennan: We knew we were in last place at that point, so when we got to the pit stop, we weren't sure if we were going to be last or not. We had a good idea that we weren't by the time we got to the camel Roadblock, because there were other route markers left, or...info packets. But then the last time was, believe it or not, in leg nine, when we finally won another leg. Such a long drive down there that we had no idea whether other teams had passed us, you know, what they had done to go from the tigers down there, and we thought -- we didn't think there was a great possibility, but we thought there was a slight possibility that we might be eliminated. So that's why, I remember when we walked into the temple, I say, "Well, there's no one here telling us we're eliminated," and we were so surprised that we were first.
Rob: That one...that one, not as much as the others. [Another discussion about something they're not sure whether they should talk about. They elect not to. Don't worry -- it doesn't sound like anything you would knock yourself out to hear.]
Miss Alli: Hmm. Oh, boy, this is a good question I have here. Do you think you would have moved even faster if you had had matching outfits? [they laugh] I shoulda cut that one out, huh?
Rob: I'll tell you, I don't know how the Guidos got all that stuff in those backpacks, it's just really amazing.
Miss Alli: What...the...
Brennan: It was just the bottomless...what did we call it? The Pocket Universe.
Rob: Yeah. They've got a Pocket Universe in their backpacks.
Miss Alli: [laughing] Well, that's -- and everything was always so clean! And ironed, and it looked...
Rob: Rolled and pressed!
Miss Alli: They were so...they were so clean! Remarkable! At least I thought it was remarkable. 'Cause a lot of the time with a lot of the rest of y'all, no offense, but it looked like you probably stunk.
Brennan: Yeah, right. Believe me, by the end of the race? It was when we were in Alaska -- that was the one place where we stayed where there was no place to shower, and I mean, you know, the musher's cabin, and that little bed and breakfast place, and...so you've got -- I had a thermal shirt on as the bottom layer, and so at times when we're running, like when we ran out to do the blanket-toss, you get sweaty at those points, and so you take all those clothes off, and you've got this sweaty shirt on underneath. By the time we got that thing to New York...you know, sometimes you smell people that have such bad B.O. that you're like, "How could you possibly get to that point?" It was at that point. I was embarrassed to be on the flight to Newark, because I was afraid the person sitting to me was gonna think, "Who the hell is this guy, and why does he smell so bad?"
Miss Alli: [laughing] Excellent. That turned out to be a better question than I thought. And actually, speaking of packing, if you had it to do all over again, would you take anything with you that you didn't take?
Rob: We would leave things behind that we originally took. We had this fantastic all-weather tent, we had these sleeping bags...
Miss Alli: You did?
Rob: And some family in Zambia right now is enjoying our tent. [chuckle] We ditched a lot of stuff along the way just to lighten the load after we saw how the game was working and that we weren't going to need it.
Miss Alli: So you ditched that stuff pretty early.
Rob: Yeah, very early.
Brennan: Yeah, you know, we've been asked that question before, and I have never thought of anything that I would take that we didn't take. I would take more SwainBrain shirts [Shameless! Plug! Alert!], because we got all this advice from the mountain man at the local sporting goods store that we should be taking synthetic clothes and not cotton, just because you don't know what situations you're going to be in, and in the end it didn't matter. I should have taken more cotton shirts.
Rob: There's Kevin and Drew with jeans and baseball caps, and here we are with all our tight Lycra and synthetic pants and shirts, and...[trails off laughing] But hey, I wouldn't change anything. We ended up winnin' the bitch.
Miss Alli: [laughs] That is true. Who can find fault?
Brennan: That's right.
Miss Alli: So what do you consider to be the big turning points of the race?
Rob: Hmm. You mean when we finally got our groove going?
Miss Alli: Well, I don't know. I mean, part of the reason I'm asking this is that I personally think of it as having had, I guess, three or possibly four pieces. That there was a piece up through about the first three [episodes], that's a piece, and then, like, the two are a piece in my head, I have no idea why...so I'm just trying to get a feel for, like -- I don't know.
Brennan: Well, I thought the actual turning point, if you were to graph the thing, I thought the turning point was the ride from northern Thailand to southern Thailand.
Rob: Yeah. I would agree with that.
Miss Alli: Yeah.
Brennan: Because that was the time when, as I've just explained to you, we thought -- or I thought -- we might be eliminated, and we ended up in first place, for two reasons. We didn't take the time to look for the private car, we just said, "Let's get in the bus and go." And then once we finished the tiger thing, we got back to the bus station and immediately said, "We gotta hire a car, we gotta go." We didn't take the time to think, "Oh, should we take a bus? Oh, should we take a train?" We just said, "Let's get in the car and go." And the reason we were able to do that is because we had saved so much money. By that point, even though we were only in leg nine out of thirteen, we were already at the point where we didn't need to worry about money, because we had done such a good job saving it. We just said, "Let's go." And in the end, that's what made the difference, and that's what separated -- in fact, Margarita kind of did the same thing, and that was what put the two of us out in front, and there was no looking back. We had no worries about elimination after that point.
Miss Alli: Well, that day was kind of your destiny. I mean, that day was kind of everybody's destiny.
Rob: Yep.
Brennan: It really was.
Miss Alli: People who had a bad day that day were hosed for good. And people who had a good day that day were running up the last 500 feet.
Rob: Very true.
Miss Alli: And I think that goes with the other thing that sort of developed as my theory of the entire [race], which was that it wasn't so much that people won, as it was that people lost. And in order to win, you had to avoid losing.
Rob: Yeah. That's one of the things that the story editors and producers said all along was that up until the final couple legs, it's not a race to win, it's a race not to lose. All of a sudden, you switch gears at the end and it's a race to win among the final teams.
Brennan: And the truth is, if you look back at all the eliminations, you can pinpoint what happened for those teams to lose.
Miss Alli: Absolutely. Well, see, I was manipulated perfectly. Just as they intended. So, okay, this is -- I just wrote myself a note here that said, "How cool was that y'all caught up with Bill and Joe in Paris right before you ran through the sewer?"
Rob: Oh, right, that was Brennan's -- that was a great moment.
Miss Alli: I adored that.
Brennan: Well, that was really the first time -- besides them breaking the alliance, that was the first underhanded, dirty thing they had done to us, and that was the stupid little thing of going into the Pantheon, where they kind of slipped ahead of us.
Miss Alli: [dubiously] Oh, but now, see...well, I don't want to fight with you.
Brennan: But the truth is, a lot of people would say, "Hey, you guys walked past it, they had every right to do it." But the fact is, it saved them all of thirty seconds, and it pissed us off.
Miss Alli: Well, right, yes.
Brennan: So why would you do that? Why burn bridges when all you had to do was go, "Hey, guys, the entrance is over here." You know, to say, "Instead of saving our thirty seconds, we're going to not piss these other teams off." So when we got down there, and we ran, and we knew that they thought they knew Paris, and we just wanted to beat them so badly in there, that when we got there and I saw them standing there, and they're kind of looking...and at first I stood to them, and I'm like, "They don't even see me standing here," so that's why when they turned and looked at me, I just went..."Hello."
Miss Alli: If you wore the hats, you would be.
Brennan: You know, it's funny, because I have gotten recognized a couple of times wearing the old visor.
Miss Alli: Oh...[groan of pain]. Oh, we didn't even touch on the visor. What a tragedy that was.
Rob: The visor was not a tragedy.
Miss Alli: Oh...[another groan of pain]. The visor was a worse tragedy than...than even the red hat.
Rob: [cackling]
Brennan: Oh, that hurts.
Rob: My red hat was wonderful.
Brennan: No, your red hat was definitely worse than the visor.
Rob: Dude, not when your three inches of 'fro was coming out of it at the end. [laughs]
Miss Alli: Well, and this is my whole argument. I understand the whole -- I seem to remember, Rob, that you told me in New York that "you can't hate our hats AND hate our hair."
Rob: [laughs] Yeah, exactly. You know, the funny thing about it is that we both looked liked such crap by the end of the show that it just didn't matter anymore.
Miss Alli: But see, the whole thing with the visor is that you can't wear a visor to conceal hair issues.
Rob: But the funny thing is that I'm the one that likes visors. I'm the one that suggested getting the visors, and then I ended up not bringing mine.
Miss Alli: And aren't you glad?
Rob: No! I like the visor.
Brennan: 'Cause I think the thing is, even though you can SEE your hair, you're allowed to do it, because you have a visor, because you've got something else on. It's not just straight hair.
Rob: Look how bad my hair was at the end! Like you said in your recap, that scene in the breakfast before going dog-sledding, when I scratched my hair and every hair moved together. I should have had a visor on.
Miss Alli: Not a good hair moment. So people who recognize you and talk to you, they're normally okay, they're not too freaky?
Brennan: No, they're actually...they're very normal. People...it's like Rob said, it's great to have people come up and say how much they enjoyed the show. And especially now that it's over with and we won, to get so many good compliments from people about the way we played.
Rob: Yeah.
Miss Alli: 'Cause your guestbook on your web site, there?
Rob: Yeah, it goes nuts a little bit sometimes. We do get, like, freaky propositions and stuff by email, but the people that approach us in person are always very, very nice.
Miss Alli: But the email people?
Rob: Yeah, the email people have that...what do you call it, the fourth wall? That little bit of filter between them, so they can be a little more wacky.
Brennan: Generally, the email ones are okay, but yeah, we've definitely gotten a few wacky ones.
Miss Alli: Well, I read something about some marriage proposals, and a guy trying to sell off his sister...
Brennan: Yep. Marriage proposals, and many pictures...
Rob: Many pornographic innuendoes, and...oh, yes.
Brennan: But no pornographic pictures.
Miss Alli: Well, I'm sure they'll be PhotoShopping them soon, if I know the internet community. So, speaking for the entire readership of Star Magazine, I have to ask you about the wild parties and the dozens of groupies. [The Star ran a little article about Esquire a good ways through the race, in which it stated that the boys watched the show every week with a house full of girls -- "groupies," specifically -- numbering in the "dozens." No guys, just a house full of girls. It also mentioned that they'd both just recently treated themselves to brand-new wheels -- that Brennan had a BMW and Rob had a "tricked-out" Jeep. I did not actually expect them to answer for this article. I expected them to tell me to shut up.]
Rob: [chuckles, but makes no move to answer the question]
Brennan: Well, I think there is...we'll say there's a base of truth to a little bit of that article, but it's amazing how it can be blown out of proportion. We would have people over every Wednesday night, usually about ten to fifteen people -- usually people that we used to work with. Men AND women. So, the truth is, we did have these parties. They were usually over with by probably 10:30, when the show ended at 10:00. The other truth is, we both -- I drive a convertible BMW and Rob drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee -- of course, they're four and three years old respectively.
Rob: And my Jeep is very far from "tricked-out."
Brennan: That's why I can say the article is all based on truth, but in the end, it's not truthful at all.
Rob: Yes. JeremyBender can attest to the tame nature of our parties.
Miss Alli: Oh, and you realize the entire purpose of that question is to give you shit.
Rob: Of course, of course.
Brennan: We enjoyed it, though, because as many people have told us, once you're in the tabloids, you know you've made it.
Miss Alli: Aww. Well, that's good. We're always happy to be of help.
Brennan: It's funny, with our show, I think the problem was, there were just enough boards out there that you could read most of them. With the Survivors, there's so many of them out there that I think it's overwhelming -- they don't even bother. With us, there was enough that you could put in the time and read most of them. So you'd end up -- I'd end up catching myself just being like, "Okay, I've been on the internet for three hours, just reading stuff, I need to go do something else." But it wasn't bad for us, because you know, there were times when people said bad things about us, but generally, you know, people liked us, so it wasn't too bad. I know some of the other teams -- Bill and Joe, they definitely got to a point where they just stopped reading them, because it got too difficult to take.
Miss Alli: And I don't -- I mean, that doesn't surprise me. It surprised me much more, frankly, how nice everybody was.
Brennan:: Well, I think people realize that in the end, it's a "reality" show, but it's not a real experience. It's not like tomorrow, some husband and wife are going to go running off in a race around the world. It's just not a real experience, and people understand that in extenuating circumstances, people are going to act differently, and in the end, it was just to make a television show.
A minute or so later, Rob returned and we wrapped it up. So thanks to Esquire, and to the manufacturer of my speaker phone and my mini-recorder. And bite me, Radio Shack. You're lucky I could scramble and sub in for the crappy hardware you sold me that didn't work, because otherwise, you'd be looking down the barrel of one very angry chick.