In August, right after I started recapping Mad Men, I got a message from a very lovely and generous poster who goes by the name of calalily, saying that she had a good friend from her theater department in college who was on the show, and she'd be happy to facilitate an introduction. After some pleasant emailing back and forth and some minor negotiations with the AMC publicity department, here we are. Want to read more from the Mad Men cast? Visit the show's section on the AMC website. And now, the interview.
Rich Sommer: Hi John!
Couch Baron: Hey, Rich, how are you doing?
RS: I'm doing well, how are you?
CB: Good, thanks!
RS: Good to finally talk to you.
CB: You too! How's everything going?
RS: Oh, it's going okay.
CB: You probably could stand better news with the strike.
RS: I would like it to last…one more day. [both laugh] Just to get our point across.
CB: I think a lot of people feel that way. So I did what research I could on you. [both laugh] Did you grow up in Toledo?
RS: I was born in Toledo. I lived in Cuyahoga Falls which is just outside of Akron, until I was eight, and then I moved to Stillwater, Minnesota, which is just outside of the Twin Cities, and was there for the duration of my childhood.
CB: So what was your high school experience like? Did you do any acting?
RS: Yeah, you know, I did some…I've really kind of been one of those polarizing people as far as the people that I got along with that were authority figures, teachers and whatnot. And in high school, there were two drama teachers during my time there, and neither of them…I didn't hit it off too well with either of them. So I did some stuff, but mostly little one-liner things, and then when I wasn't onstage, I was pulling the fly and stuff like that.
CB: Gotcha. And what about comedy? I know you've done a lot of improv.
RS: Yeah, that started in eleventh grade -- it was with a group called Comedy Sportz in Minneapolis, and they had someone come out and teach a group about improv, and when I went off to college I took that with me, and started an improv group at my college that was mostly made up of people that I had known in Stillwater anyway, so it was mostly my people.
CB: Oh, cool! Does that still exist there?
RS: No, they invited us to make it an official Concordia organization, and I asked, well, would the performers still get to keep the money from the performances they're doing? And they said no, and I said, well, then, no. [both laugh] 'Cause it was my only job in college, was that improv group. We were the Upper Minnesota slash North and South Dakota's only, or whatever it was.
CB: That was your first hard negotiation!
RS: [both laugh] That's right. Drawing up my own contract.
CB: But in college, you studied acting, then.
RS: I did.
CB: Was it an acting school?
RS: Not at all. Concordia College is a liberal-arts college with a pretty small theater program -- I mean, well, everything's small, it's only like, twenty-five hundred students in the college, total. The theater department is small, and it's not like, it's not known as a training ground for actors. It's more like, well, you're getting a liberal arts degree, and you're interested in theater, so.
CB: So what was your first step out of college?
RS: Right after college, I went and worked at a radio station, on a Top 40 morning show in Minneapolis. I started as kind of an intern/phone answerer guy, and I quickly kind of ascended the ranks, and they had me on air as part of this morning-show gang. And I did that for about six months, and then went off to some kind of odd jobs as I auditioned for community-theater stuff, and as I was doing those odd jobs I kind of got to a point where I was hating my life, so I called my theater professor from college and asked how I would get into grad school. And he told me to buy an American Theatre magazine and look at the schools listed in there, so I did, and about eight months after that I was in grad school.
CB: And where did you land for grad school?
RS: It's called Case Western Reserve University, in Cleveland. Also not known for its theater program, but it has a tiny masters program for actors -- eight actors every two years, and it's a three-year program. So the first year you have the third-years there, and the second year you're by yourself, and the last year you're the third-years and another class comes in. And it's affiliated with the Cleveland Playhouse, which is just down the street, so you leave with your Equity card, and, I mean…I absolutely stand by the training in that program. I think it's a really fantastic little gem that not enough people know about.
CB: So you were ready for the theater after that.
RS: Yeah, I mean…[laughs] I haven't actually done a play since grad school, which was three and a half years ago. But I still feel ready. I'm gonna get more ready as the strike goes on. [both laugh]
CB: And you did Upright Citizens Brigade, which some of my friends on staff will be thrilled about.
RS: I did. You know, my time at UCB was…actually, the summer between my second and third year of grad school, I went to UCB to take classes for that entire summer. And right when I came back to New York after my third year of grad school, I started back up there, and I had made some friends the year before and was interning there, and there was a weird shake-up in the performers' ranks there, and a guy that I knew was given a list of names and was asked, "Who do you want to perform with?" And my name happened to be on the list, and he said, "Oh, how about Rich?" It was a little premature. [both laugh] I wasn't fully prepared. Our team only lasted about four and a half months and then disbanded. But it was a really good time -- I get to say that I was a part of that whole organization, which is really phenomenal.
CB: Yeah. And it must have been terrifying, too.
RS: It was absolutely terrifying. I mean, when you're in the back hallway and Amy Poehler and Seth Meyers are walking by, and you're just like, what the hell am I doing here, I've been here for, like, three months. Everybody hates me because I've only been there for three months and there are some people who have been studying there for three years and haven't gotten onto a house team yet. And I just got on because I guy I knew saw my name on a list and said, "That'd be fun," not really considering the fact that I might not have been fully prepared. Not that I blame him -- I blame myself.
So did you do both sketch comedy and improv?
RS: With UCB I only did improv.
CB: Do you find the on-the-spot…well, especially with UCB, but do you find the on-the-spot aspect of improv has helped you with your acting?
RS: Oh, absolutely, I mean, especially when I look at, like, the commercials I've done, because I did a handful of commercials, I don't know, eight or nine national spots, and the improv training was absolutely essential. It made it easy to switch gears and, you know, improvise when they needed it, and make things sound interesting when they didn't, so that was definitely an important part of that. Not that it's not important now, but I get to access it a lot less, with a show that's as tightly written as Mad Men.
CB: Can you give an example of a commercial where you really had to rely on that training, or where it was really helpful?
RS: Sure, let me see…well, I did a Cingular commercial that was on earlier this year, one of the dropped-call spots, where my wife called me and told me that she was pregnant, and the call dropped as I was like, celebrating…
CB: That was you?
RS: Yeah! That was me.
CB: [laughs] I had no idea!
RS: So, I mean, that was one that, you know, in the audition, they didn't know how they wanted it to go, and so they had given me, they had said, "Try it this way, where he's really really animated! Okay, try it this way, where he's much more subdued!" And then when we shot it, we did it, like, twelve different ways, and they ended up cutting it together with the very animated version.
CB: So obviously you had plenty of dramatic training, but given all the improv that you also sort of specialized in, did you want to be a comedy actor at all?
RS: You know, I thought I did. I mean, in high school, I was sure that my calling was to be on Saturday Night Live, or at least, if not on that show, something like that. I thought that was where I was headed. And as I got farther and farther along -- you know, in high school it wasn't a very strong theater program. Not to badmouth the program -- it was a fine program, but it just wasn't like a specialized acting program. But when I got farther along and got into grad school I realized, you know, I think I kind of like the scripted stuff more. I can remember starting grad school and saying something to the effect of, you know, if I never did another scripted word, that would be fine by me. If I could just improvise for my living, that would be fine. Well, as grad school went on and I learned more about technique and about the amount of incredible writing there is out there, I began to kind of renege on that statement. And I think that comedy is still something I want to do, but right now, for some reason, it feels like dramatic stuff has been coming a little more easily to me.
CB: Right. But let's say something that's more of, maybe a comedy hybrid, something like The Office, would that be appealing to you?
RS: That would be very appealing to me.
CB: I'm not just saying that because it's sort regarded as the Holy Grail of comedy or anything, but as far as the format and genre go.
RS: Well, it is as far as I'm concerned. [both laugh] Definitely something in that format…I love that kind of dry delivery style. I think the basic thing is that I thought sketch comedy or maybe like sitcoms were where I was going to end up, and as I went and progressed, I realized that my performance style tends towards the natural, and towards the kind of real, and based on that it's hard for me to…I've auditioned for plenty of sitcoms, and it wasn't clicking, because it never felt like I was able to be as wacky as they wanted me to be. With The Office, you're still rooted in reality, in actual discourse. Something that I learned at UCB is that one of the most fun people to be in an improv scene is the person…there's usually the crazy person and the non-crazy person. I always thought the goal was to be the crazy person, but I found out how much fun it is to be the non-crazy person, who simply called out all the crazy stuff that was happening. That's like John Krasinski on The Office, when he's like, "That's not a good thing to do." That's where all the humor is.
CB: So you're not a three-camera kind of guy.
RS: Um…I would take any job!
CB: [both laugh] Well, every actor would probably give that disclaimer.
RS: Sure. But that's not really where I think my strong suit is.
CB: So acting-wise, as far as being on the radar, you sort of came out of nowhere into The Devil Wears Prada. That was your big break, I guess, right?
RS: Yeah.
CB: So how did you get the part?
RS: That was a very weird thing. It was actually the summer before I was getting married -- my wife-to-be and I had gone to Minnesota for a few months, to get ready and just to be out of New York. I was teaching acting at a summer camp in Fargo -- it was a performing-arts camp called Trollwood, which was just a few miles from where I'd gone to college, so I knew some of the people running it, and that's how I got the job. My cell phone rang after one of my classes and my manager said, you know, there's an audition for the film adaptation of the book The Devil Wears Prada, Meryl Streep is in it, we'd love if you could send a video. I went to a friend's house to shoot the video, and his roommate was having a party, and I was like, we'll shoot it in a little bit. And then it was like, nine-thirty at night, and I was like, oh, crap, we haven't shot that thing yet, we gotta shoot it now. And at this point, I had been indulging at the party as well, so my audition tape, which was sent to the casting people, featured me with a bottle of beer in my lap and a plate full of pork chops, which I was, like, eating seriously as the audition was going on, and for some reason they loved me and asked me to come out, and they cast me at the callback, which was like, outrageous.
CB: That's hilarious.
RS: I don't know how it worked.
CB: But it was a scripted audition, yes? They sent you pages?
RS: Yeah.
CB: Did your buddy read with you?
RS: My friend who was hosting the party, who also could be heard eating pork chops behind the camera. It was the most asinine audition tape I have ever seen, much less been in, and they loved it.
CB: Dude, first you get into UCB off a list…
RS: I know! I know!
CB: …and then you get a part in a major motion picture in this manner. It's hilarious.
RS: It's been a very fortuitous path.
CB: So you got into this huge project. You must have had something of a sink-or-swim feeling about it. Most people get to ease into it a little more, maybe with an independent film or something?
RS: Right, right. There was a sort of…I never felt over my head. I felt prepared. That's where…even though I was the guy with a beer in his hand and pork chops in his mouth in the audition, I also had a master's degree, and felt like I was prepared. So walking in to do that first read-through, which was terrifying -- I mean, Meryl Streep walks in and introduces herself to you, in a room where there are only like fifteen people, all told. It was very surreal, but it was fantastic, and again, I didn't feel over my head. Anne Hathaway, Adrian Grenier, Tracie Thorns, were all so welcoming to me, and I think they recognized that I was definitely the freshest, newest kid out of the group, and Adrian and Annie and Tracy, all of them were just so good to me. I spent much of our time when we weren't shooting hanging out with Adrian in his trailer and watching DVDs, or the four of us just standing on a street corner in Union Square and chatting. It was really an amazing experience -- I couldn't have asked for a better first run into it.
CB: Did the role require any significant preparation for you?
RS: Uh…no, not really. [laughs] It was pretty straightforward. The one really nice thing was that David Frankel, the director, invited us to improvise, and invited us to go off the script, and in fact mentioned -- this was like, my biggest adrenaline rush ever, in his director's commentary, he mentioned me and improv in the same breath, which was like, "Oh my gosh. I love it." But like, the ending to our first scene in the movie was completely made up by us, and he loved it. We ended up fine-tuning it, but it was basically the last few lines of that first scene, where we toast to jobs that pay the rent, was something that we came up with on the spot. And there are a couple of little moments like that.
CB: So let's get into Mad Men. How did you first hear about the show?
RS: Um, it was during my first major pilot season in New York, because after The Devil Wears Prada, some people were willing to let me come in and audition, and it was one of many pilots I went in for that year.
CB: And you read for Harry, originally?
RS: Actually, you know, a lot of us boys read for other parts. Aaron Staton, who plays Ken, originally read for Pete, I read for Dick, who became Paul Kinsey, played by Michael Gladis…I think all of us were reading for different parts and it just kind of came out in the wash.
CB: Gotcha. So you knew nothing about the project other than getting sides?
RS: Well, I had the script, and my manager was calling to give me some background. They called me about this one -- they said that this one was kind of a biggie, because it was being made by people who had worked on The Sopranos, and the pilot script was being touted as being especially different, and an especially strong piece in that pilot season. I remember talking to people way back then about Mad Men and them saying, "Oh, I heard about that! My agent was saying that was one of his favorite scripts of the year!" It was definitely one of the hot projects of that season.
CB: Was there anything noteworthy about the audition process?
RS: [laughs] Well, I had an interesting little run at it, because I auditioned for it maybe at the end of March or early April -- I don't fully recall, and about a week later, I got a callback, and I went and did it, and I felt…okay about it, and then I didn't hear anything for like two weeks. And I was like, "Crap!" I felt really good about the project -- I loved it, and there are those projects…when you're auditioning as much as I was then -- between commercials and pilots and stuff, I was going out for five to ten auditions a week. So I couldn't really get too invested in anything emotionally or I would just be constantly heartbroken. But this was one that I really had kind of gotten invested in. So I was really bummed, because it was so good. And it was about the day after I was lamenting that -- I told this story at the Paley Center a few months ago -- I was literally sitting at home on my couch, in my boxers and my t-shirt watching Judge Alex, and the phone rings, and they said, "Hey! Rich! We want to see if you're still interested in playing Harry for Mad Men. "Uh…yeah." "Great! Can you be here in two hours for a read-through? We start shooting the day after tomorrow." "Um…yeah." [both laugh] "I can be there in two hours." And I was just running around my apartment calling…because they called me directly, I called my managers, and I called my wife, who was at a temp job or something, and was like, "I'm going in for Mad Men , the read-through's today in like an hour and a half, I gotta go shower." You know…it was a good day.
CB: So given how heavily the time period in which it takes place informs the show, when you got the part, did you bone up on the zeitgeist of that period at all?
RS: I did a little bit, you know, I went to the Strand in New York, and I bought a couple books on advertising back then -- one was The Mirror Makers. To be honest, Michael Gladis and Aaron Staton and I had remained good friends after the pilot, and we all stayed in contact. And when we heard that we were all cast, we all kind of set out with the goal of doing research, but Michael ended up doing more than the other two of us, so I pretty much cheated off of him.
CB: Was there anything about the period you were surprised to learn, or that was especially interesting for you?
RS: Yeah, I mean…I think I was taken aback by the same thing that the viewers seem to be taken aback by, which is the rampant…freedom, I guess? The freedoms of drinking and smoking at work, or saying completely horrible things to whoever you want with no repercussions, and doing horrible things to people with no repercussions. I don't…I don't believe that's how every person in 1960 was, but I do believe that there were offices not unlike Sterling Cooper, where the people were loose of morals and with vice and freedoms.
CB: So in the pilot, one of the theories advanced is that society as a whole has a death wish, and that's used as a possible explanation for the mass appeal of smoking. And that seems like one of the points that today could still hold up -- tons of people still smoke.
RS: Oh, sure.
CB: Now do you think there are other examples of the show's messages still being applicable today? Or do you see it as more of a period piece?
RS: Oh, I think it's…I mean, it's a period piece in the way it takes place then, but I think it's so clearly being written in 2007, you know what I mean?
CB: Yeah.
RS: I feel like it's not, this show -- even, let's say, just for a kick, that it were a true story, and every character in the show was exactly how they are, I think if it were written in 1960, it would be so different, you know what I mean? The feel of it wouldn't even be anything like it. So I think that there are…there are lessons, sort of -- I mean, I don't feel like it's necessarily meant to teach any lessons, but I do feel like there are definitely, you know, things like, "When you're mean to women, you look like a jerk." [both laugh] You know, et cetera. I mean, there's more to it, but I think that…it's a drama, you know? And I think it's about lying for a living, and how people pay for those lies, and how the line between their professional lives and their personal lives is so blurred that you can't even make a distinction.
CB: So let's talk some about Harry. At the beginning of the season, I think it's fair to say that he was lumped in as one of the fellas.
RS: One of the boys, yeah.
CB: But he's really kind of emerged as a decent, sensitive guy. So how do you think he survives among, let's say, the less upstanding folks?
RS: You know, that's a good question…I mean, he's --
CB: And maybe as a related question, what's the appeal of Sterling Cooper for him?
RS: I think Harry is…he's trying to, as I mentioned, walk that line between personal and professional. He, more than anyone, wants to be a guy, but also wants to be a man. He wants to be a good husband, but also wants to be one of the boys. I think that he, more than anyone, is constantly trying to figure out how to draw that line. I think it's in "Marriage Of Figaro" where Harry talks to Pete about women, and he refers to enjoying women in such a way as a married man can. What we have may not be enough for some people, but it's plenty for me. And he's just saying, I think, it's possible to smoke and drink with the boys, you know, go to a strip club, do the whole thing, flirt heavily, but when all is said and done, he kind of hangs up his shoes and goes home and tries to be a good husband. The appeal of Sterling Cooper, I think, is that it gives him a chance…these are all -- I think these are all kind of frat boys, and it gives him and all of these guys the chance to keep living that freewheeling lifestyle. You know, I'm married with a child -- I've got a kid on the way right now.
CB: Congratulations!
RS: Thank you very much. But I sometimes lament the loss of that time in college when I could just skip class and play video games and, you know, no one cared, really. I could do whatever I wanted, and it didn't matter. And I think many people still now try to kind of make business a pleasure as much as possible to keep that sort of freedom alive. There are plenty of people who don't want to leave the office, because leaving the office means leaving a little bit of their identity.
CB: So to the extent that they've been developed, and obviously they haven't been developed with everyone, how would you describe Harry's relationships with some of the other characters?
RS: Um…Harry's in kind of a unique position, because he's not among the creative staff, you know? Harry is a media buyer, whereas Paul and Ken are copywriters and Pete is an account executive, so is Don, but they're both creative. Harry's job is, luckily, sort of slightly less in competition with the other boys. You see Paul and Pete have major jealousy issues when Ken is published in the Atlantic Monthly, so Harry in a way is kind of lucky that he doesn't have to get into that crap. You know, he just kind of hangs out. As far as his closest friend, it's Pete, and by "friend" it doesn't really seem like they're friends, necessarily, as much as they just get along. They don't deal competitively with each other.
CB: Yeah, they seem to be non-rivals.
RS: Yeah, exactly. And Pete almost leaves him hanging, but he does finally come to his rescue, and…I think everything went okay. There was some allusion in an earlier script that got written out that Ken and Harry get to be better friends, and I hope that develops. Because poor Ken doesn't seem to have anybody. Everybody always wants to beat him up. It would be nice if Harry and Ken could have a friendship.
CB: So even though Harry is a good guy, at least seen through the prism of this office, he commits an indiscretion.
RS: Yes.
CB: But unlike many of the other male characters who seem to think that's their right and maybe even their duty, he is remorseful and confesses -- although we don't see it, I think we're meant to know that he confessed what happened to his wife.
RS: Yeah, I do too.
CB: And it seems like, based on the limited evidence we saw, he views what he did as one hundred percent wrong. Do you think that makes him weaker or stronger than the unrepentant characters? Or is the situation more grey than that?
RS: I think it's definitely…for me, Rich Sommer, I see it as making him stronger. But in the context of the story, I'm positive that someone like Pete or Roger or Don, who are routinely cheating on their wives, would see that as stupid, and think that it makes him a weaker guy. But I think that…I personally think that the point is, at least part of the point is that we as the audience don't see Harry like that. And I've read some people on your website or elsewhere saying, "Oh Harry, what are you doing telling your wife," and I think it's because those people have been romanticized into believing that, for this show at least, you don't tell your wife. And I think -- I guess -- the characters would probably all agree with that. But the point is that we see Harry juxtaposed against Don and Pete and Roger, and see him do what I think is the right thing.
CB: I think it partially goes back to what you were saying, too, about how he's trying to integrate the parts of his life, because one of the things that Don has been described as on our site is a master of compartmentalization.
RS: Yes.
CB: And it seems like one of the reasons Harry tells his wife is that he's unable to pull that off, which could be interpreted as healthier. You know, you acknowledge every part of yourself.
RS: Absolutely. Yeah…[laughs] I mean, I wouldn't think that anyone would stretch so far as to say that Don's choices are healthier. [both laugh]
CB: So the scene in the season finale in which Don pitches the Carousel concept is obviously one of the biggest moments of the show -- powerfully moving, and I think your character obviously felt that more than anyone else because of where he was.
RS: [both laugh] Yeah.
CB: Tell me what it was like to film that scene.
RS: Well, it's funny…the finished version, which I think packed more emotional punch than it would have otherwise, was so much different from how we shot it. The way it was shot was much more…and in the script also, there was much more time spent on Harry throughout. And they made an editing choice that I remember them talking about before I saw it, and they said, "Don't freak out over this." And I didn't freak out over it, because I thought it was really, totally, the right choice emotionally for the audience, to hear that whole speech and get to experience it themselves, and then see how it's impacting the people in the room. But as for shooting it, it was luckily my last day of shooting, and I'm kind of an emotional guy anyway, so it was a very easy thing for me in a way…[laughs]…but it was also difficult, because I've never had to do the crying thing on camera. I've had to do it onstage, but with that, you're like, forty feet away from everybody. So it was hard, in a way, but everybody was so supportive…I mean, this whole cast and crew are like…people just wouldn't believe it if I told them how amazing everyone is. So supportive and so encouraging -- there are almost no egos. It's really incredible -- they were all so supportive and so encouraging and so cheerful, with me in that day, it was really a phenomenal experience. It was kind of like a trust fall -- you're mid-fall and you're nervous for that one second that no one's going to catch you, and then…it was very reassuring.
CB: Yeah, I mean, obviously sitting there filming is not the same as the finished product, with the music and the slides and everything, but it still must have been emotional.
RS: It was emotional -- I mean, we'd been doing it for four and a half months straight, and at that time we didn't know if we had a second season, so I was thinking…I mean, really, all I thought about in that scene was that this could be the last thing I shoot. This could be Harry Crane's last frame of film ever. And that was enough to make me emotional.
CB: The camera setups on the show are very meticulous. How does that translate for you technically? Do you end up going more times than maybe would be normal, to get what the director and the D.P. need?
RS: You know, it's actually pretty remarkable how quickly the show gets done. It seems that people come in with pretty clear plans. I can remember a couple times when we were told, "Okay, boys, go play cards." There were a couple times where that was the case when they were trying to set up a shot, but it really was remarkably…it was much quicker than I thought it was going to be. You know, of course some scenes took more takes than others, but it was routinely pretty quick.
CB: So what would you say was a normal number of days for you to shoot per episode?
RS: Well, for me…[both laugh] if you look at the episodes, I am lightly peppered, so generally I'd shoot anywhere from one to three days. There were a couple episodes where my stuff was spread out enough that I'd be there every day for a short time, you know, five days in a row. But generally I would say each episode was two, three days.
CB: Another thing about the production to which a lot of care is obviously given is the set design and wardrobe. To me, it seems like those things are paramount on this show, because for one thing, those are the tools that really evoke the time period, and for another thing, it seems like one of the themes of the show is how this glossy, shiny world of advertising creates this veneer over some ugliness in society.
RS: Sure.
CB: So given that, is everyone, even down to the actors, paying attention to the set design?
RS: Oh, I think so, at least to some degree. You also have to know that for me, I'm just a dumb actor. [both laugh] I don't have any sort of firsthand knowledge, but we kept eyes out, sure…a couple times we'd notice the copyright on something and bring it to someone's attention. But in general, the people who did that stuff were so amazing at their jobs that you just…we seriously didn't have to worry about it. I do remember when I was being shown -- when I had to choose my watch, they had a big pile and I tried on all these watches, and I was like, "How about that one?" And they said, oh, that one shouldn't be in there -- it's not period. And it looked period to me, so I asked, "What about that isn't period?" And there was something about the typeface on the front of it or something like that that didn't…it was something where I was like, "Okay! I trust you!" Those guys are just so good at what they do.
CB: Another interesting thing I find about the show is just how many long scenes there are. And yet, there are so many unspoken moments -- I would guess, not having seen a script, that the number of words per page actually devoted to dialogue is the lowest of any show, at least that I watch.
RS: Sure. Yeah.
CB: There's so much silence, and there are so many lines that are just written in a very, I would say, minimalist way. Do you find that freeing as an actor?
RS: Oh, I do. I mean, as I said earlier, for me, I've found that my style tends toward the natural, you know? I thrive in a scene where I can feel like it's a real situation…and not necessarily real in that it has to be, you know, a true story or whatever. I mean, I'm happy to fantasize, but I like real reactions and real dialogue, and in our real lives, there's a lot of real silence. So allowing us to tape with what's not being said definitely makes it a far more enjoyable experience. There's a lot of shaping that can be done in the silence, and, from a technical standpoint, it's good for the editors, obviously, because they can then design…we can all sort of work together and collaborate on how full or dense or not dense those scenes are.
CB: Sure. Okay, another thing I personally love about the show and that's been talked about quite a bit is how effortlessly it seems to avoid cliché, and surprises even avid viewers. One example of that is again, in "Nixon vs. Kennedy" -- I don't know why I keep going back to that episode.
RS: It's such a…that episode, I feel, is a major…it's kind of a turning point for a lot of people.
CB: Yeah. It's a tour de force. So where Ken finds Paul's play, and he's giving him shit about it, and you think maybe Paul's going to punch him in the face, and the next thing you know, they're staging a reading. Which was hilarious, but also unexpected.
RS: Exactly.
CB: So when you get a new script, do you just look through for moments like that?
RS: Well, when I get a new script, and I can definitely say that everyone is always so eager to get our new scripts, when we would get them, we would just sit and pore through them, because we were enjoying the new scripts in the exact same way that every viewer who watches Mad Men was eagerly waiting for the next episode. To see, you know, not only what would happen for our particular characters, but the twists and turns that were happening that we didn't anticipate. I didn't know Peggy was pregnant until we were shooting, I think, Episode 11 or 12. They didn't tell us, and I only heard because Aaron Staton came up to me and told me. But, you know, we gossip about the show just as much as anyone does. So yeah, I didn't even have to read for those surprises, they just -- I loved them as a reader, and as someone who had gotten to perform them, and I read with as much excitement as anyone. When Harry and Hildy kissed, I remember gasping audibly. [both laugh] And that next morning in the story, I was like, "Oh, Harry, you idiot!" You know? And your glasses are broken…I mean, it's just…uch. What an idiot.
CB: Yeah, I thought it was such a great touch, but also so heartbreaking, when she's already slipping back into this secretary mode, telling him where he can get his glasses fixed.
RS: Yeah.
CB: It was great. So next season, you'll be starting with the advantage of the audience already knowing your character.
RS: Yes.
CB: So what kind of story arc would you like to see for Harry, or what kind of challenges would you like personally, as an actor?
RS: Oh, gosh. That's a good question. I mean, I guess I'd like to see…you know, it's funny, I remember reading on your site, people saying that for guys who work in advertising, they don't seem to work a lot. And I would love for Harry to have more projects to work on. But it's hard, again -- he's a media buyer, so I would think that a lot of his job would be spent on the phone with some guy who runs a billboard company, you know? [laughs] It's not going to be that exciting, but I would be interested just to kind of see what each of the guys has done.
CB: Well, I guess the show is never going to put it in if it doesn't yield some insight into your character.
RS: Exactly. Yeah.
CB: But it would be great to do both.
RS: Yeah, absolutely. And as far as storylines go, I am as eager as anyone who cares about the show to see what is going to happen with Harry and his wife, will it work out…
CB: [laughs] Will we meet her?
RS: [laughs] Will we meet her? Will she remain as Vera did on Cheers?
CB: Right, exactly!
RS: I mean, I'm so curious. And I'm curious how this experience is going to impact Harry with the boys. Will he be in the doghouse and not be going out?
CB: And as you said before, he's been walking that line, and he always pushed back against the boys, it seemed -- there was that line in that same episode right before the party when he tells the boys, "That's my wife!'
RS: Yeah. Right.
CB: So I wonder if he'll assume that role more.
RS: It would be interesting, but like you said too, Matthew Weiner is storied for taking us in direction that we haven't even thought about yet.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
RS: That's what I'm so excited about. I mean, I see Matt socially sometimes, and I try to get it out of him and he responds, "I don't know. We'll have to see." [laughs] And it kills me, you know?
CB: [laughs] Yeah, I've read a couple interviews he's done recently, and there seems to be a heavy implication that the next season is going to take place sometime down the road, but publicly at least, I don't think he's saying exactly when.
RS: Yeah, I have no idea. I remember reading that a little bit, but nothing further.
CB: And given that the season culminated around such an event, I wonder if he'd pick another event around which to build the story.
RS: Right.
CB: But we'll see!
RS: Right! I am as curious as you are.
CB: Well, that's all I have for you, Rich. Anything else you'd like to add? RS: Well, I will say again -- I know I emailed this to you, but I read your website and I love it.
CB: Oh, I'm glad!
RS: And I've gotten into it now for other shows as well -- I was originally just reading the Mad Men forum, just because I like to know what's going on, but my wife and I are such big TV fans, so getting to read the forums and the recaps of other shows we enjoy is a very fun…if we had temp jobs like we did in New York, it's all we would do all day. [both laugh]
CB: That's how we exist! That's how our site exists.
RS: Exactly.
CB: Saving people from doing work. What other shows do you watch?
RS: Let's see…well, I watch Heroes, although I'm kind of less impressed with it than I have been in the past.
CB: Yeah, I hear you on that.
RS: Yeah. But of course, The Office…I mean, Thursday night NBC is back, as far as I'm concerned. 30 Rock, My Name Is Earl.
CB: Oh, I love 30 Rock.
RS: Oh, it's brilliant! And that's fun too, as someone who…again, having lurked around the back hallways of UCB for a year, it's fun to see people that sometimes I got to chat with backstage or whatever. That show's just heavily weighted with UCB people. Pushing Daisies is great fun.
CB: All right, Rich, I will let you go. Thanks!
RS: Thank you, John! I'm glad we finally got to do this.
For more from Rich Sommer (and the rest of the cast), head to AMCtv.com.