Chuck Lorre is one busy guy. He's the mind behind CBS's money-making Two and a Half Men and the geekfest The Big Bang Theory. The prolific creator was also the man responsible for Dharma & Greg, Cybill, Grace Under Fire and wrote for Roseanne. He's known for his little snarky signature vanity cards at the end of the episodes of his shows, where he takes aim at whatever issue is weighing on his mind. He usually pulls no punches. So this reporter was trying hard not to ask stupid questions (and probably failing) as she nervously picked up the phone to talk with Lorre about the second season of the addictive and entertaining Big Bang Theory.
Lorre seemed to be in good spirits (sorta) when we chatted during his commute to the office a week ago, even though he had to stop for gas and that's not cheap. Lorre told us all about where Season 2 picks up, guest stars, if he's itching for an Emmy win on Sunday night, Comic-Con, and a potential crossover between his two shows.
TWoP: I appreciate you taking time out. I'm sure you're busy juggling both shows right now.
Chuck Lorre: It is busy.
TWoP: So we're chatting about your newish show The Big Bang Theory, which I just adore. What can you tell me about Season 2? Does it pick up right where we left off with nerdy Leonard taking hot Penny out?
CL: Yeah they're going to be coming back from their first date in the first episode. The series picks up with Leonard and Penny coming back from that faithful first date. I can't tell you how excited I am. We've shot two episodes so far and they're great. I mean, I just continually am delighted and amazed. The whole cast is phenomenal. I'm very close to it obviously, but I can be objective enough now to be able to say it's a remarkably, remarkably deep and talented cast. And it's been a lot of fun to write for them.
TWoP: I especially love Jim Parsons (who plays Sheldon). I just love the way that he rattles off physics dialogue just off in these huge long speeches. They are just really funny.
CL: Yeah. Jim is an amazing actor. It's really exciting to watch him work.
TWoP: How hard is it to write this scientific dialogue?
CL: There are always moments in every script where we write in parenthesis; in the dialogue it says: "SCIENCE TO COME."
TWoP: You have a science expert on staff to come help you with that?
CL: We have an astrophysicist at UCLA who is a consultant on the show who we are in constant contact with who helps us get the science right. We made it a point, [co-creator] Bill [Prady] and I, since the pilot to get the science right. So we're not guessing. And he'll tell us, you know. We shoot the show live in front of an audience. While we're shooting we may change a line in front of the audience. If we change a line and we're tampering with the science, some of the dialogue... we are told by David Salzberg, our astrophysicist, that "No, no, no, that's not correct anymore." And we change the line so that he's happy. We don't want to get a bad grade.
TWoP: Yeah, I'd be afraid.
CL: Then the blogosphere goes crazy if we make a mistake so we work really hard to try and get it right. It's fun too. The challenge is to have these characters speak in their own language and for sort of the rest of us, the civilians, of which I am one, for us to still get the intent and comic intent of what's going on. Even if we don't get the minutia of the math. You don't need to understand the math to get the intent.
TWoP: Well I kind of like how sometimes you have Sheldon or Leonard explaining things to Penny and I'm like 'Oh. Right. Now I understand what Schrödinger's Cat is.' I've heard it before but never understood it.
CL: Right. Right.
TWoP: I'm sort of on the Penny science level.
CL: You know, I'm right there with ya. I mean, I'm fascinated by it and since we started working on the pilot, I've been trying to catch up on the great gaps in my education by reading popular books about quantum physics, but I much more identify with Penny.
TWoP: If it hasn't happened on a science fiction TV show then it's beyond my science knowledge. Do you feel like you related to Leonard or Sheldon when you were creating these characters? Is there a little bit of you in either of them?
CL: I think the part of me that I find my entry into these characters personally is, and I assume it's a universal feeling that rulebooks were issued to walk through this world and you didn't get one. You know that feeling like you know you're just a step behind everybody else and you don't quite understand what's going on? And when it comes to romantic relationships and personal relationships that you're just not understanding and you know you're in the dark and everybody else gets it but you? I think that's what I more closely identify with these two characters. I'm an old guitar player who has fallen into television and is so happy he did. I don't have the background that these characters do, but I get feeling left out. I believe that a lot of the audience connects with them in that they're sort of estranged from the mainstream and Leonard wants very much to be part of it. Sheldon has no interest whatsoever. Howard Walowitz thinks he is in the mainstream...
TWoP: Oh...Howard.
CL: Poor Howard is completely deluded.
TWoP: I know some Howards.
CL: You know some Howards who think they got it going on but they don't?
TWoP: Uh huh.
CL: And he's just joyfully oblivious.
TWoP: And sweet little Raj, too.
CL: And Raj is so neurotic he can't speak to women, which is an extreme aspect of every man. For every man that ever walked the Earth, except maybe the sociopaths, when it comes to talking to pretty girls... it's just stark terror. We've taken it to an extreme and you know. We made it pathological for Raj.
TWoP: It worked. I keep telling people to just watch it and they're like "Oh I'm not really into all that nerdy sci-fi stuff that you like, Angel. And I'm like, "No, just trust me, just watch it."
CL: I think a large part of that is this cast of actors. They're remarkable. It's just a remarkable cast and we were repeatedly hit by lightning when we put this cast together. Every part of the puzzle came together perfectly. And it took place over several years too. So it's even more remarkable that it happened at all.
TWoP: The wonderful ways of TV.
CL: Yeah, I mean it really sometimes is a series of happy accidents.
TWoP: So did the writer's strike slow down the momentum at all? Were you concerned about keeping up?
CL: It absolutely hurt us. The show was building momentum. It was on eight weeks before the strike started. I think we aired eight episodes and each episode kind of was going up just a little bit in the ratings so it was building. Slowly, but it was building, and it was really exciting because you could see it. A tenth of a ratings point each week going up, that's like one hundred thousand people. A lot of people are coming to the show and that was happening every week last fall and then the strike happened... and it all stopped and it was horrible. There was crying. I mean... there was crying. We had this beautiful little child that got taken away and there was nothing to do about it but hope for the best. And when we came back on the air... three of four months later we had some rebuilding to do. And they moved our timeslot too. Which was a terrific help to us. [He says sarcastically.]
TWoP: That Monday comedy block, you're doing pretty well there. Both your shows. You're slowly taking over the night.
CL: No, no, no. There's no taking over the night. Just trying to survive the whole process.
TWoP: Were there any storylines that got pushed up or postponed because of the strike that we'll either see?
CL: No, we're just trying to stay focused on stories that reveal these characters. We're not looking for the big story ideas as much as the ones that... you know the little gems that help you at the end of the episode you kind of feel like you know them better. Those are the better episodes for this genre. It's not meant to execute big moves. It's just not what a half-hour comedy does well. It's a play. Essentially, we're shooting a play in front of an audience. If somebody makes a mistake we shoot it again. But otherwise it's a theatrical presentation. So the smaller ideas present themselves better.
TWoP: Makes sense. Do you ever worry about putting in too many comic or sci-fi references for the general masses?
CL: I do worry about that. If the show becomes too reference heavy then I think it risks losing a lot of people who are not deeply immersed in the minutia of nerddom. It's a balancing act and every decision is a guess, really. Just making a guess, really. Where is the line? What's too much? What's enough? What's just right?
TWoP: Does the live audience help with that? You know you hear them and think, "Oh I don't know if they got that?"
CL: You know what's interesting? Now that this is our second year, the live audience generally is full of fans of the show. And they're on top of all the references.
TWoP: They're like me scanning Battlestar Galactica websites in their spare time.
CL: They respond to Battlestar Galactica references and old sci-fi references. They knew what The Time Machine was last year. And what a Morlock is. So when we shoot the show on Tuesday nights, if you ever come out to LA you should come see it. It's really fun cause the people in the audience are really excited to be there and their response is gratifying. I don't know if that's the same response to people that aren't necessarily living and breathing this kind of material.
TWoP: I don't know. My dad loves it.
CL: That's good. That's good. That means that the balancing act is working for the time being. It really is a guessing game as to what's too much and also just being true to the characters. You know, you just look at every line of dialogue in every story and say, "Is this legitimate for our show?" And also if it can be done by another show then it's not our show. If it's just a story about a group of guys hanging out, well they're not just a group of guys. They're extraordinary guys. And if we're not reflecting that then it's not.
TWoP: They can make luminescent fish. They're amazing.
CL: Yes, if they make luminescent fish they're not slackers.
TWoP: They don't work at your local video store.
CL: No, they don't. You get what I'm saying exactly. We look at every line of dialogue in every story to determine if, "Are we being true to these guys?" Because they're not us so we have to see the world through their eyes.
TWoP: Any good guest stars coming up this season we should be looking out for?
CL: Well Sara Gilbert is going to be on the show.
TWoP: I'm very excited that there is a brainy girl too.
CL: And she's terrific. And again it's just another one of those little miracles that we got Sara Gilbert to be part of our ensemble. And we are talking with some other remarkable actors to come on the show. I can't really name names yet cause we're not there yet. I don't want to create any awkward moments for the people we actually haven't signed a deal with. But I hope we can get Laurie Metcalf to come back.
TWoP: I would love it if she came back. She was so perfect as Sheldon's mom.
CL: That episode just killed. I loved every minute of that. That was one of my favorites last year.
TWoP: So how did you get this great theme song cause it sticks in your head and there's not a lot of great theme songs on TV right now?
CL: I had the odd idea that you could try and do a twenty second wrap-up of everything that's happened since the birth of the universe 'til now. And I pitched it to Ed Robertson of the Barenaked Ladies and a couple of weeks later he emailed us a guitar vocal demo of that song and it was incredible. I couldn't believe it. I mean we at one point were saying lets just put the demo on and he goes, "No, no no." I want to put the whole band on and do a whole big production number of this thing and I fell in love with the demo."
TWoP: Well, you being a guitar guy...
CL: We really at some point have to play just the bare bones demo of just him and the guitar, an acoustic guitar. It's terrific. And then the big production number is a whole other animal and now it's the only thing I can imagine being at the top of the show. They just nailed it. All we had to do at that point was just work with them and try and figure out how to edit it so that it could be short enough to air in that tiny window of time at the top of the show. Have you heard... have you seen the whole song? Have you heard the whole song with the pencil line drawing that the guy in England did?
TWoP: Not yet. I just heard about it.
CL: We found it on youtube. We were going to shoot a video for the song this summer and we found this thing on youtube. This guy is a student in London and he did it as part of a school project. And we just all agreed we can't do any better than this. It's phenomenal. So that's our video. And I think he got a good grade.
TWoP: I would hope so. So how was Comic-Con for you?
CL: It was exhilarating. I had never been to Comic-Con before and I wasn't really sure if we belonged there. And our reception was, it was, I dunno... I was stunned. I was hoping for a few hundred people in a small room. But what was it? Was it a couple of thousand people? Standing room only and they were so enthusiastic and knowledgeable about the show. We left San Diego three feet off the ground. Everybody in the cast. It was a heartwarming experience to see that the show had meant something to people. It was as meaningful to the people watching it as it is to us. That was terrific.
TWoP: Comic Con is a big deal. Those fans will let you know if they don't like something.
CL: Yeah. I got that. What I took away most from that was the whole atmosphere of it was a celebration of what people love. And the costumes and all that stuff is just an aspect of that celebration. I just thought the energy there was terrific. We walked around. Just wandered around the convention floor and it was just fun. The whole experience was wonderful.
TWoP: Right. So now that you've done a sort of Two and a Half Men/CSI crossover, are we ever going to see a Two and a Half Men/Big Bang crossover?
CL: We are toying around with the idea of Jake on Two and a Half Men being tutored by Leonard or Sheldon.
TWoP: Okay. That would be funny. Well Angus T. Jones cracks me up anyway.
CL: Yeah you know. And what will happen is Charlie and Alan will go to pick him up and get in the elevator and get trapped.
TWoP: Nobody is supposed to get in that elevator!
CL: If anybody gets in that elevator it would be Charlie and Alan.
TWoP: That's very true. So I know it's kind of a touchy subject but Two and a Half Men is nominated for a bunch of Emmys. Are you looking forward to it?
CL: It's always fun to get to go to a party.
TWoP: Okay.
CL: I mean, you get to see people that you haven't seen in a long time. You only generally see other writers you know when you're walking around with a picket sign.
TWoP: Right. Well hopefully, that doesn't happen again anytime soon.
CL: Yeah. But you know... You get at something like this to see people whose work is really exciting. Matthew Weiner, the guy who created Mad Men. And you get to see, I'm looking forward, hopefully, to meet the guys who created The Wire. So I felt kind of as a fan too you get to see some pretty remarkable people and you get to advertise a tuxedo. Once a year that's all we ask, right?
TWoP: So you think you have a shot this year? For best comedy?
CL: Nah... Not really. Not really but you know, I'm actually very happy to be able to go and I am very happy to be included in it. But if you glean what you read, no we're not really in contention.
TWoP: You never know. Stranger things have happened. It is the Emmys.
CL: Uh... okay. [Laughs] If you say so.
TWoP: Well you know you do kind of have a highly-rated comedy. That should count for something, right? At the end of the day the fans love you.
CL: Yeah, Yeah. You know, look. The fact that we get to keep making the show is what is of paramount importance to me. It's a terrific ensemble. A heartbreak is when you make a TV show and you love what you're doing and you love the people you're working with and then it gets taken away. So what's most important is that we are getting to keep making our show.
TWoP: Who needs that little piece of metal?
CL: Yeah well, that would be nice. But you know it truly is, it's secondary to that. We get to keep making the show and I've lost sight of that in the past believe me so, I'm trying to stay in gratitude for all the good things. I'm not overly concerned about the things that we don't have.
TWoP: Are you getting mellow?
CL: I'm trying. Yeah, cause the alternative is to keel over and die while creating a sitcom and how tragic would that be? Died making a sitcom? What a dope.
TWoP: Now you are putting a little stress on yourself though doing two shows at once...
CL: Gee, you think? [Laughs]
TWoP: What were you thinking?
CL: Yeah it's kind of a little much but you know I just try to figure it as we go.
TWoP: Do you feel like you have two kids vying for you attention all the time? How do you deal with that?
CL: You just kind of go where they point you and you surround yourself with really smart people I think is the key to doing this. There are two amazing writing staffs for both shows. Both shows have in my mind perfect ensembles. Talented actors. Keep in mind nobody does this sort of thing alone. If you think you're doing it alone you're a fool and you will fail. So I lean heavily on people I love and trust and have been working with for a long time. I've know Bill for 12 years. We go back to Dharma and Greg. Lee [Aronsohn] and I on Two and a Half Men have been working together since he first came and worked on Grace Under Fire '93 or '94. Anyway I'm running out of gas. I'm going to pull into a gas station. And put a hundred dollars in my gas tank.
TWoP: Yeah. At least. I heard it went down this morning a little.
CL: I'll tell you right now it is pretty good. $3.99.
TWoP: Wow. Under $4. That's such a deal.
CL: I'm impressed.
TWoP: Every couple years somebody writes another article saying sitcoms are dying, comedies are dying... Do you think there is any truth to that? Or do you think they're just sort of looking for an angle?CL: I don't know. It seems to have been a good story for people to write about. But it's always amazes me that they don't take us into consideration. We're doing great. I think we know what we're doing. We try and makes ourselves laugh and hope that the people who watch the show agree with us that what we are doing is funny. You know you can't presume to know what millions of people might like. You can only trust your own instincts and hope other people agree with you. And if they do you get to keep making TV shows.
TWoP: Right. Are you crazy enough...
CL: (he continues) They don't....
TWoP: Oh sorry.
CL: Am I crazy enough? Yes. What was the question?
TWoP: I was going to say are you crazy enough to be working on any other shows or pilots or projects?
CL: I actually was working on a third idea earlier, then the full depth of my insanity dawned on me and I put it aside.
TWoP: Someone talked you down from that ledge?
CL: Several people.
TWoP: Okay. So you're running these two shows with new seasons coming up. Any final thoughts?
CL: Very exciting. On September 22nd both shows hit the ground running. You know we have three shows of Two and a Half Men shot and two episodes of the Big Bang shot. And I couldn't be happier. It just feels like all systems are operating beautifully. And the shows are funnier than ever.